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#206743 - 04/28/24 08:15 PM Looking to buy several different Randall sheaths..
22rimfire Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/21/23
Posts: 23
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa
Not exactly sure how this UBB code works...but here goes.

I'm a 75 year old retiree who sold his target pistol and vintage ammo collections after retirement. Too many laws. Now I'm collecting fixed blade knives, primarily Randalls and tacticals of the Vietnam-Gulf Wars era.

I would like to buy three different left-handed JRB sheaths -

* 12-8 for a Big Bear Bowie
* 12-6 for a Sportsman or Little Bear Bowie
* 1-7

For those unaware, a left-handed sheath will align on your left hip with the spine (straight edge) to the front. It doesn't matter which side has the retaining strap for my purposes.

I am also looking for a pair of Randall JRB sheaths for an 8" Model 1 and an 8" Model 2. I want a pair that match in color and condition.

Lastly, I am looking for a stamped Clinton Special sheath. ( I no longer need this sheath. Thanks.)


Edited by 22rimfire (04/29/24 06:03 PM)
Edit Reason: new info
_________________________
Jim Frye
Des Moines, Iowa

U.S. Army
1969-1972
-Berlin
-Vietnam
-White Sands

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#206762 - 04/29/24 05:14 PM Re: Looking to buy several different Randall sheaths.. [Re: 22rimfire]
LarryWW1246 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 1752
Curious...how did you get so many naked knives?

I run into that occasionally and wonder why no leather.

Larry
_________________________
Larry W. Williams
RKCC #CM-041
ABKA #046
RKS #1246

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#206763 - 04/29/24 05:54 PM Re: Looking to buy several different Randall sheaths.. [Re: LarryWW1246]
22rimfire Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/21/23
Posts: 23
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa
I don't have but two naked knives, the others are a matter of preference for the particular knife. I have been around collectors enough to know they ALL are eventually taken by an item that isn't exactly perfect but still desirable. I buy things I want and then try to upgrade...I've applied that philosophy to numerous collections over the past 50 years. With Randalls I've learned it's nigh on impossible to find older sheaths. I was talking with Jason Randall a few weeks ago and he told me he thought miss-matched sheaths was a BIG collector issue. And newer guys like myself don't always know which sheath is the right one.

Example; I bought two nicely engraved, matching 1 and 2 Randalls
from the heir to an estate. Hos benefactor had purchased the pair from dealer Jack Crider was all the heir knew when I bought them.
I didn't even know who Jack Crider was at the time, and still don't know who engraved the knives. Fortunately I was able to buy new sheaths, but now I know the knives are 1969-1975 vintage and require JRB sheaths to be proper.

Hope that answers your question. Be good, be safe...and if necessary, be good 'n safe.


Edited by 22rimfire (04/29/24 06:00 PM)
Edit Reason: additional info
_________________________
Jim Frye
Des Moines, Iowa

U.S. Army
1969-1972
-Berlin
-Vietnam
-White Sands

Top
#206768 - 04/30/24 10:14 AM Re: Looking to buy several different Randall sheaths.. [Re: 22rimfire]
LarryWW1246 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 1752
Jim--

Your comments remind me of a couple of issues about collecting knives, including Randalls.

About engraving...Most engravers sign their work with their initials or name. But...people who pay them to scratch on metal don't always (or usually) keep records of who did it, when, and what it cost. So the true value of the item going forward might be diminished.

Also, just what wood went onto a knife is usually/often lost insofar as there are no paper records about the purchase. That leaves it for others to speculate about what wood the handle is made from, whether it was stabilized, etc.

It is a thoughtful owner who keeps the records to go with the knives after they buy them, and a lucky collector who manages to get those records when the knives are passed on.

Larry
_________________________
Larry W. Williams
RKCC #CM-041
ABKA #046
RKS #1246

Top
#206802 - 05/06/24 08:31 AM Re: Looking to buy several different Randall sheaths.. [Re: 22rimfire]
crutchtip Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2848
Originally Posted By: 22rimfire
I don't have but two naked knives, the others are a matter of preference for the particular knife. I have been around collectors enough to know they ALL are eventually taken by an item that isn't exactly perfect but still desirable. I buy things I want and then try to upgrade...I've applied that philosophy to numerous collections over the past 50 years. With Randalls I've learned it's nigh on impossible to find older sheaths. I was talking with Jason Randall a few weeks ago and he told me he thought miss-matched sheaths was a BIG collector issue. And newer guys like myself don't always know which sheath is the right one.

Example; I bought two nicely engraved, matching 1 and 2 Randalls
from the heir to an estate. Hos benefactor had purchased the pair from dealer Jack Crider was all the heir knew when I bought them.
I didn't even know who Jack Crider was at the time, and still don't know who engraved the knives. Fortunately I was able to buy new sheaths, but now I know the knives are 1969-1975 vintage and require JRB sheaths to be proper.

Hope that answers your question. Be good, be safe...and if necessary, be good 'n safe.



You are knew at this, so a bit of advice. The statement highlighted in red is important. I would recommend staying away from anything associated with Crider. He is well known as a fabricator (and seller) of altered knives to make them "one of a kind", and thus worth more money to the unsuspecting collector.

That is not to say he didn't have good pieces, but until you get your feet wet in the hobby, stick with known entities.
_________________________
www.rmkcollector.com

BUY-SELL-TRADE

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#206803 - 05/06/24 10:12 AM Re: Looking to buy several different Randall sheaths.. [Re: crutchtip]
LarryWW1246 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 1752
Not to pick a fight, but...

Sounds like the knives he bought were standard catalogue models…not one-off’s, fakes, lunchbox knives…not all of which came from “Crider.”

Which raises the question…are the only knives to be shunned that are “out of the ordinary” those that might be attributed to Crider? Of the knives in the Green Catalogue and others, I wonder if anyone has ever gone back into the records to see which if any were actually done for him by the shop and sold to him? "If" that was done, it might "legitimize" at least some of the suspect knives. Otherwise, it is folklore, legend, rumor as to what is what.

We see a lot of non-catalogue knives that were made over the decades…and should they all be diminished, ignored, whatever? Even though most of them were actually made by the shop?

Crider sold hundreds if not thousands of catalogue standard knives over the years…should I throw away those that I bought from him???

Thinking that would be foolish.

Larry
_________________________
Larry W. Williams
RKCC #CM-041
ABKA #046
RKS #1246

Top
#206806 - 05/06/24 09:03 PM Re: Looking to buy several different Randall sheaths.. [Re: LarryWW1246]
22rimfire Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/21/23
Posts: 23
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa
Larry, I've read some of the various posts about Crider and it sounds like he was a stinker at the least. How much iffy stuff he did we will probably never know.

The pair of knives I purchased were also scrimshawed by a Dental Technician from Columbus, OH who did some scrim for Crider. Since both are deceased I'll probably never learn any more. I sent them to RMK for a spa day and to get sheaths fitted for them. RMK raised no concerns about the legitimacy and fitted me with a pair of black Sullivans which look good, but I still want to find a pair of JRBs.

I have one of the knives from the Green catalogue and RMK knives helped me identify it. Again, legitimacy was not an issue for reasons that will be apparent when I post pictures of the knife.

If a knife 'grabs' me, I will study its qualities and then make a decisions on purchase. That's all any of us can do and still call ourselves collectors.

rimfire


Edited by 22rimfire (05/06/24 09:04 PM)
Edit Reason: markup
_________________________
Jim Frye
Des Moines, Iowa

U.S. Army
1969-1972
-Berlin
-Vietnam
-White Sands

Top
#206835 - 05/14/24 01:16 AM Re: Looking to buy several different Randall sheaths.. [Re: 22rimfire]
Ronnie Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 2263
Loc: NW Mississippi
Please post some photos.
_________________________
Ronnie
RKS#2166

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#206884 - 05/26/24 08:02 AM Re: Looking to buy several different Randall sheaths.. [Re: LarryWW1246]
crutchtip Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2848
Originally Posted By: LarryWW1246
Not to pick a fight, but...

Sounds like the knives he bought were standard catalogue models…not one-off’s, fakes, lunchbox knives…not all of which came from “Crider.”

Which raises the question…are the only knives to be shunned that are “out of the ordinary” those that might be attributed to Crider? Of the knives in the Green Catalogue and others, I wonder if anyone has ever gone back into the records to see which if any were actually done for him by the shop and sold to him? "If" that was done, it might "legitimize" at least some of the suspect knives. Otherwise, it is folklore, legend, rumor as to what is what.

We see a lot of non-catalogue knives that were made over the decades…and should they all be diminished, ignored, whatever? Even though most of them were actually made by the shop?

Crider sold hundreds if not thousands of catalogue standard knives over the years…should I throw away those that I bought from him???

Thinking that would be foolish.

Larry


Larry -

Good points, but some aren't realistic. Of course not every knife that went thru Crider's hands is suspect, but a good percentage are. Nor was he the only one altering knives, but probably the most well known, and perhaps the most prolific. Hell, he unwittingly documented his shenanigans for us with the publication of the "green catalog". For a newer collector, IMO it would be wise to look elsewhere, or at least ask some questions prior to investing in something known to come from him.

A decent amount of Crider's stuff that was altered/modified did come out of the shop, but not out the front door, and without the authorization of Bo and/or GTR. Unfortunately, a couple pf unscrupulous shop employees were paid under the table to make "special/one-of-a-kind type stuff for Crider. The whole basis of this was greed.

Rhett made an attempt by publishing a short list years ago of known bad pieces (at that time) in the catalog, but folks weren't as up to speed back then. The catalog was relatively new, and not as many things were questioned back in the day. A new list might be out in the not so distant future. Below is a link to my site and the 1991 list of altered pieces:

https://rmkcollector.com/1991-green-catalog-altered-knives/

Everyone would like to find a one off or rare piece, and in the end, the whole point of shunning Crider catalog items is to protect the newer collector from making a bad purchase. A potentially expensive bad purchase, that might remove his/her participation in the hobby forever.
_________________________
www.rmkcollector.com

BUY-SELL-TRADE

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#206886 - 05/26/24 10:40 PM Re: Looking to buy several different Randall sheaths.. [Re: crutchtip]
22rimfire Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/21/23
Posts: 23
Loc: Des Moines, Iowa
Thanks, Joe, for calling my attention to the altered list. I had no idea of its existence. Despite what I wrote earlier, I breathed much easier after finding my knife was not on the list.

rimfire
_________________________
Jim Frye
Des Moines, Iowa

U.S. Army
1969-1972
-Berlin
-Vietnam
-White Sands

Top