Ron, that line was painful to read, very.

But even in this short line, the most knowledgable people are all over the map with basic facts. It does not engender confidence about the opinions on whether Lt. Col. Salvo’s knife is-or-isn’t one of the original 20, or 30, or 36 or 55.

Perry, that statement declaring "not likely" for reasons... is tailor made to drive me to drink. What reasons?

There are at least two knives with identical sheaths from this period, Salvo’s and Grissom’s. Either they are from the original <30> or they are not. I really don’t care if the sheath was made by Sadaam Hussain… but to me, what is important is the provenance of the Salvo knife-sheath combo. Still, regarding Mr. Stockman and Mr. Randall:

Starting with sheaths, to disqualify the possibility that Stockman made these sheaths, everything that was printed has to be false: 1. Expert leather craftsman; 2. Sheaths for Randall; 3. Visit from Astronauts; 4. Statement of Astronauts.

- Was Mr. Stockman and friend and associate of Mr. Randall or not?

• Either Stockman was a skilled craftsman or he was not. The fact that he was a well known high end leather craftsman makes me wonder why he would produce crude and misshaped sheaths for Randall. Geezzzz - I could do a better job making some of the sheaths that are attributed to Stockman … so … what evidence is there that those monstrosities were made by Stockman?

• Did some Astronauts visit and thank Mr. Stockman for his sheaths? Either they did, (and the sheaths were nice), or someone is lying. There certainly is some anecdotal evidence that certain Astronauts did visit Mr. Randall thus COULD have visited Mr. Stockman: “...On 6 December 1963, Cooper, accompanied by a Gemini Program astronaut, Tom Stafford, paid a surprise visit to the Randall residence…”

• For that matter, given Mr. Randall’s attention to detail, I wonder why he would ship crude and misshapen sheaths to the US Astronauts on short notice.

• What was the time window for these sheaths with the cross-wise stamp, compared to the known provenance of the original knives? Obviously at least two knives have comparable sheaths so “sheath-later” rather than “sheath-delivered-with-kinfe” seems less likely.

Other questions: How many knives, total, presumably similar to Salvo-Grissom, were delivered to NASA? Documentation? There is a lot of contradiction (see below), even in this line. Were or were these not delivered with sheaths? If delivered with sheaths, what characteristics to they exhibit that disqualify the sheaths as “Stockman?” It seems to me that the only thing that disqualifies them is a set of assumptions about what a “Stockman sheath” looked like. Is there hard evidence or is it all speculation and circumstantial?

Other unknown factors (to me) come to mind because I’m relatively uninformed about facets of the history of original Randall model 15/17s:

• When was the original batch of knives delivered – I assume mid 1960? Is there a documented date, or dates?

• Did Johnson make sheaths that were close in appearance to Heiser’s with the rivet keeper, in 1960 - or whenever the original batch of knives was delivered? How do we know this? Appearance is not enough to positively identify maker and would be tossed out of court as speculation.

• Could or would Heiser have produced a small batch of <30> sheaths on short notice for the Astronaut knives? Yes or no.

• If Salvo’s knife, and Grissom’s knife are not from the “first batch,” where is an example of the “first batch,” including sheath?

• I at first thought the knife to be stainless. Are claims about Rhodium plating, and ability to identify same, made by folks knowledgeable in metallurgy? Imagine a line of questioning in court about one’s metallurgy expertise….

• Furthermore, I originally thought Salvo’s knife to be stainless because of the obvious hard-long use (Westmoreland’s knife was on his hip 100 days per year for 4 years and looks better than Salvo’s) and lack of pitting and rust evidence – however, could the knife have had steel wool applied? If not is it plated? In light of Perry Miller’s statement below – about “some” knives (my interpretation, “not all knives) were plated?

• Is Grissom’s knife-sheath plated?

• I assume someone has the original order for these knives specifying Rhodium plating… is this correct? How many knives?

If a subject board is to be more than just an exchange between a few insiders, it would help people like me, with my compulsive personality disorder, if the basis for declarative statements were footnoted. But maybe I’m asking too much.

Differences of opinion exist in every field. But debate usually turns on evidence. Here are some of the posts that have caused confusion, just in this line. These are not intended to embarrass or attack anyone, just to try to understand some of the contradictions inherent in subject.







My note: if Grissom’s knife-sheath is one of the original 20, isn’t it reasonable to assume Salvo’s knife-sheath is also?

And this about the number of “original” model 15-17 knives, and about sheaths:





But then the post was apparently edited to read



So… what could we do to see if Lt. Col. Salvo’s knife one of the original 20 or <30> or 36?

1. Find the purchase order and since the U.S. Government doesn’t usually give things away without a signed issue order, find that. Or,
2. find another knife-sheath of unambiguous provenance to the early period.

I think I will E-mail Sen. John Glenn.

Regards.