I’m new to this forum and new to collecting Randall’s. I have acquired a few and would like to use one as a fishing knife in saltwater. In my earlier years I was a diver and every knife I used would rust to varying degrees although these knives were relatively inexpensive and it isn't clear what steel was used. I recently acquired and used a knife made from CPM S30V stainless in saltwater and it would spot within a few hours of getting dunked in the surf. To those who currently use their Randall knives in saltwater my question is what degree of “stainless” can I expect from a stainless model? Will I need to rinse it immediately when I get home from an outing (sometimes that’s 2 or 3 am) or can it withstand 6-8 hours of sitting with salt possibly in a wet sheath without rusting? I may be wrong but judging from the high level of magnetic attraction using a magnet I’m guessing this will get rust spots pretty quickly. I hope I'm wrong and that's not the case. Thank you and I have to say this is a great forum. TomD

I cannot get it to rust in my salt tests. I'm sure as long as it dosnt sit overnight you will be fine.

I've never really believed in testing my saltwater gear to find out "when it will rust"---rods, reels, knives, lures, etc. For me, that means at least a fresh water nozzel hose and quick rub down before sleeping & hitting it again in a few hours depending on the tides, weather and what's hitting. Not a speck of rust on my Randall#10-7" ---or my old Rapalla, early "70's Penns, old classic lures, etc. that will still slay "em on the right hour on the right day.

Keep it a little clean and don't worry. On the Outer Banks you may just be starting at 2 am.

I agree Duke.
Keep it clean and with proper care, it'll last forever.
Tony

The model 10 is not 440B like randalls hand forged knives.

Hi Leatherman - I'm curious what your salt test consists of?

A couple of points here. First of all, "stainless" means just that - it doesn't stain. There is no implicit corrosion resistance. If there was, they'd probably call it "rustless."

Everything corrodes in salt water. It's the nature of the beast. It's only a matter of time. Now, how much time is where it gets interesting. The industry actually has standards for these sorts of things, and it's actually a surprisingly short amount of time before even the best stainless steels start to show signs of corrosion when totally immersed in salt water. As in hours, not days.

But that's total immersion. You're not doing that. Still, how much time does it take to run a little tap water over the knife to rinse it off before going to bed? That's a valuable investment there. I think I'd find the two minutes to make sure it doesn't get ruined.

I have done tons of salt tests on all sorts of knives and steels. I cannot get a Stainless Randall to rust. I think it has to do with the steel being uncoated and a high chromium content. liquids roll of very easy too.

As to the above comment: Generally the knife wont rust half as fast when under salt water for even days as it will when kept wet with salty water or sweat. I have left some knives in the water for days and nothing has come of it, but when exposed to the air and kept wet it will rust badly overnight/within hours. 01 rusts in minutes.

I have left sweat (from exercise) and salt water on the blade of randalls for days and try and try but I cannot get my 14 Stainless to rust.

Sweat is very corrosive in my experiences, very hard to avoid in the summer months. Camping in muggy august with a 01 blade...

Hi Condor - You make a good point on the few minutes of rinse off maintenance if that's all that's needed. Unfortunately the knife will be getting totally immersed multiple times in an outing. Given that, if it's rusting during the hours out in the surf it may not be worth using.

Leatherman - Thank you for the response. This is the answer I expected to hear. The S30V knife I'm using has a blade coating that I'm not crazy about but it does prevent that. Unfortunately the edge is still exposed and suffers the problem you describe.

It will not rust, I guarantee it. Make sure you have a Micarta handle and your good to go!

What model were you going to use Tom? I recommend a non leather handle.

Well, My 01 #5 has accompanied me on many summer camping, backpacking and CANOEING trips ...
first shot is of said #5 on the Moose River, Maine, in August (one of many canoe trips it has been on)
Second shot was taken after said trips.

Leatherman - The one I would use is a model 16 SF1 with std blk micarta finger grooves. If I use this I would have to treat the sheath or pick up a 16 divers model. Ideally I'd like to find a 16 Diving user but that has eluded me. The thing is if this is going to rust like the Russell Dexter's or S30V Reeves I use it just isn't worth it. The type of surf fishing I do soaks all of my gear as I wade out to rock, take waves while casting or take a spill.

I do wonder if polishing the blade to a mirror finish would help somewhat. Of course I could always coat the blade as is very popular today but that doesn't protect the edge.

tomd cpms30v have rust after fishing? use kidex for new sheat, is fantastic

Hi Fabio - The CPMS30V Reeves knife is delivered with a kydex lined nylon sheath. Yes it does get rust spots along the bare edge after saltwater submersion. I erroneously stuck it back in the sheath after a few days of drying and there must have been a drop of water left in the Kydex which caused a heavy rust spot ending in what now looks like a small chip on the sharp edge. Reeves recommends using an air hose to blow off the knife and sheath after use.

I have taken my 01 #1 camping in cold weather (humid and foggy) not even used it and it had rust spots from condensation on everything.

I have also been camping and sweated on it and it rusted even with marine tuff cloth on the blade. Its not that big of an issue, its part of using a carbon steel blade. You are not going to go camping in the back country for a week plus and not have rust... unless you are always taking care of your knife and not using it!

My sebenza has rusted in my tests, but good resistance for a S30V steel.

Leatherman - Not that it matters but I'm using the Chris Roberts model.

I dont know what type of coating the blade has but sometimes coatings can make them rust faster. I know bead blasting will make them rust easy.

Reeve uses a product called "KG Gun-Kote" which does a great job of protecting the blade....no rust forms through it.

my question is because cpms30v has much carbon and little cromium respect the randall 440b .then 440b is much stainless respect s30v but you haven't equals resistance in cut where win s30v. clean knife fastly after fishing and you haven't a problem whit rust. for sheath need to be only in kidex

If I follow what you're saying, the Randall should be more resistant to rust than Reeve's knife based on carbon and chromium content. I haven't seen the issue as much as you suggest with the CPMS30V because of the blade coating and the oil I've been putting on the blade edge before each outing. This isn't ideal since it washes off and more importantly I don't want to contaminate the flesh of fish I'm going to eat with either oil or rust.

Pick up a "nylon" diver's sheath from the Randall shop. You can wash it and dry it in the clothes dryer before you put your #16 Special Fighter back in it and that problem is solved. I have 2 Navy divers who buy from me out of Pensacola. One has used his #16 "Diver's" for so long (over 20 years) that he has worn out 3 sheaths...but..."No Rust"!! It is, after all "stain"less" steel...not stain"proof" steel.
Best, Capt. Chris

First, a little iron oxide isn't going to hurt you. Secondly and most important, you need to rethink the use of your #16 if you are planning to clean fish with it. It is not designed for that task and will not work effectively if at all.

Capt Chris - I think the nylon sheath is a good suggestion. It will certainly shed water faster than leather. My current plier sheath is leather and I have to hang it separate from the pliers to dry.

Crutchtip - Interesting point. For clarity, I won't be filleting fish with it but I'd be shocked if it couldn't gut one. For 20 years that I dove and speared fish, a US divers knife and later a Wenoka knife worked just fine. Both were double hilt, were 7 and 6 inches respectively but they each did have a more pronounced point. They also were just 3/16" not 1/4" but gutting a fish is a pretty course process. Are you suggesting the Divers version is more appropriate?

Have any pics or a story of how you or someone you know rusted a 440B Randall?

Call the shop, they may still have a 16 SF in stock.

I already own a 16 SF with a double hilt which I wish was a single hilt. If I order a Diver version I'd get a nickel single hilt with a square top and thumb notches. I hear there are better alternatives to Ebay and faster alternatives 5 year shop wait.

the rust attack isn't very fast with all stainless steel. but if you want a steel more resistent you use randall 440b.if you want clean fish whit your diver use food vaselin , petrolium jelly isn't for food

Sorry, I have to politely disagree. Not only camping but CANOE CAMPING ... FOR A WHOLE WEEK.
Used the #5 every day, including kitchen duty. And when it wasn't being used in was in a canvas thwart bag (not waterproof) attached to
a canoe cross brace right in front of my stern seat.
After each use ... washed with clear water and dried it with a rag ... or my shirt or pants.
I think keeping it clean and dry between uses is the key.

absolutely agree. for example i use at work opinel carbon . i work with acid ,chemical products, salt,sulfate ecc. every time i use,i clean with pants or shirt and the blade has only is natural oxide film

If you want to gut and/or clean fish, get a knife(s) by Forschner or maybe Dexter-Russell designed to to so. The #16 is a dive knife made for cutting, prying,and a more utliltarian role. Could it gut a fish? Sure, it could to allot of things, but if I am going fishing I am gonna have the proper knives with me.

The 16SF has always been a bastard to me, a solution to a problem that didn't exist. If you want a double hilt, just get a #16 with a double hilt. The finger relief on top of the 16SF blade is all but useless except perhaps on the BP handle, but in any configuration it is not an attractive knife.

Crutchtip - Interesting point of view on the 16SF. I see there is no mention of it in the "Knife of the week" under the 16. To me it looks like someone wanted a knife more akin to a model 1 with a full tang. Maybe another member(s) can provide the Randall rational for creating that model 16 variant.

Regarding using a Dexter Russel for fishing...that is one of the brands I currently use. I suppose I just wanted to use one of the Randalls during some of my surf outings.

You can't take it away from the Dexter-Russells. I have seen them used from guys cleaning the catch off the charter boats in Daytona Beach to the meat processor in Colorado boning out an elk. They are great knives, considering that they are basically an economical user knife. Certainly no comparison to an RMK, but I don't see that going on here.

You are correct, hence the 'bastard' desgination. It is not a model 1, nor is it a model 16, a Frankenknife if you will. Just doesn't look right.

Crutch my good friend,

The 16sp #1 was "originally" designed by Doug Kenefick in 1978 as a possible choice for his dealer special.

It was introduced to the public around 1990 for the 1st sand war, because of the GREAT demand for a combat knife that was not as big as the 14, and was yet SS so they would not have to worry too much about the upkeep on the blade since they were not sure how long they would be away from water for clean up. And being the #1 was and still is the top seller, why not make it a full tang and make it the consummate fighting knife.

There ya' go, not a bad story for the "ugly duckling" of the RMK Military Models.

Incidentally, this has been the top seller of any of the knives used during either sand war by the world's soldiers.

---DW---

DW - Thank you for the follow-up background on the 16 SF1. Great information which should probably be added to the Knife of the Week description for the model 16 if you ask me.

DW, I acknowledge all the above. That being said, the #16 with a double hilt is what the #16SF should look like, will do anything the SF would do, and look better doing it. A slightly downsized #14 if you will.

The #1 grind deserves a nice drop in a leather, stag, or micarta handle in standard shape or commando handle if you wish. It fits. It flows.

Kenifick was searching for a solution to a problem that didn't exist. Call me a tradionalist. My .02.

This is what a #16 fighter should look like:

"The #1 grind deserves a nice drop in a leather, stag, or micarta handle. Even a commando handle if you wish. It fits. It flows."

How about a nice "Ward Gay" handle...

Keep the change.

---DW---

Ohhhhh, I see how it is. Only one guy lacks enough sense to do something that horrible, so blasphemous, and you can find him on ebay - user name sjjp. Thank goodness he can't have any more made.

I agree crutch, those knives above have a nice grind. One issue I have with the 16SF is the blade dosnt look very wide, so you are left with a limited cutting edge to start with. So you have a long pokey prybar.

One problem I have with Randalls is I'll order a knife and not be happy with the blade grind, you can get some with alot wider blades and a higher cut grind and those knives will have a better cutting geometry than one with a lower grind.

Leatherman - I haven't handled multiples of any particular model but if I understand you correctly your describing a high level of variability in the grind for a particular model. Is that correct? I know they are hand forged and no two are identical but I would think the grind lines would be pretty close between knives but not exact if no jigs are being used. Of course I don't don't know that for certain.

The point I was trying to make is that the #16 has balance/symmetry if you will. The SF model doesn't have that to me. That is just my opinion. Apparently some love it. I wonder if some order the SF not knowing the #16 is available with a double hilt or the "dive knife" moniker leads them to believe it is duty specific. On the other hand, does the "Special Fighter" moniker entice some to order that model thinking it is something more?



Like Tom says, you will have variations because they are hand made, part of the beauty.

I like this discussion and needed to form an opinion,to this end I picked out a model 1 a 16 a 16sf and 14,after weighing up the pros and cons and considering all the angles,I have come to the conclusion that I like em all

Oh Neale..."AMEN"!!
As much as I hate to disagree with the "Crutch" (and "others") I find the #16-7" Special Fighter a great addition to the catalog (and non-catalog...It's one of very few in "both") line-up! The arguements I've seen posted against it hold no water for me. What's the difference between arguing that the standard Model #1 design is the only way we should accept that blade design, and yet accepting the #14 and #15 "CDT" as being just fine? No Crutch: I know you didn't say that, but the point and question are both valid.
A Spl. Fighter carries less weight than a #14 and offers full, exposed tang construction. The most perfect fighting Bowie design ever, cloned with the most popular VietNam era design...Sounds like a "win-win" to me!...Just sayin'
Best, Capt. Chris
PS: I ain't real wild about it in the standard (4 finger) configuration..."FOR ME"!!...CCS

hi , i did a test with tree steel. 440b randall, 440c herberts, cpms30v my wife spyderco pinc. i took 500ml of rain and added half salt teaspook.

after i put tree knife in the water for 5 hours

results when i took the knife

after 17 hours
440c

440b

cpms30v

results after washing. randall has only a black point

but..........other two steel rust


sponge report as usual

Like I said...It's Stain"less"...not stain"proof". Interesting test.
Best, Capt. Chris

Fabio - Great test. 440B certainly faired better than CPMS30V and 440C.

The #1 is exactly that, the #1. With options and blade lengths, using the RMK logic to disuade custom orders years ago, there is a million combinations for the model.

The CDT versions of the 14 and 15 still maintian the integrity of the original design to a certain degree. They maintain some proportion and aesthetics, most important.



A #16 fighter also carries less weight than a #14 and offers full exposed tang construction. Referencing my photos above, what does the SF offer that a 16 doesn't? Those examples are much more aesthically pleasing than any SF model. In fact, again in my opinion, the SF leaves something to be desired. I don't want anyone to take offense to this, as everyone has their own tastes. I keep going back to the bastard analogy and a solution to a problem that didn't exist. Just sayin'.

I will give you this, it is slightly more palatable in the border patrol handle.

Yes but its sort of unfair because some will get a blade thats better cutting than someone else, and its to a pretty serious degree. Look in the model 28 knife of the week thread. Some of the guys like peter K got what I would call a better grind than say Ken L. With ken getting the shortest end of the stick IMO.

Leatherman, you wrote:I own a pair of 28s, so I am curious to which one you're referring. Here is the blade of the Green Micarta one:





And, here is the Black Micarta one:

Well both of those have thinner blades than the ones Peter or the catalogue show, and IMO less attractive grinds

Gee?
We got almost 6 pages into a thread before we found out what the Leatherman didn't like about Randall knives! That's some sort of record. What a pity. Everytime...It's always somethin'. OK: Come back on and post up some dribble to let the RKS members think that we
A) Didn't get your meaning
B) Mis-interpreted your post
C) Some other lame excuse for Randall bashing
Best, Capt. Chris

I would reaally appreciate someone offering to sell me one of those "sorry, #16SPF bastards" tonight/tomorrow. I'm meeting with the mother of one young Marine in the morning before she heads South to see him off to Afganistan and will show her the picture of the Randall soon to follow him. Another young man I know quite well leaves in 2-4 weeks and I plan to also send one with him. If not, I feel pretty certain that the folks at Randall will help me fill the order tomorrow afternoon.
And would you please refer to these as "bastards" once more----I just can't hear it enough. I personally hope these knives fulfill their intended function of helping to dispence with the real BASTARDS while helping to keep safe our young/older men and women.

And, please, if you want to really use good equipment for serious or fun, keep your sorry butt awake long enough to fresh H2O it and wipe it down---it ain't a Kenmore self-cleaner.
Sorry...just tired of the petty B.S. and whining.

Thankful for all the veterans, Veteran's Day, Randall and others to help supply 'em.

I think the silent majority frequenting this forum would agree!

Cackling Hens......................

Yeah because on the forums we always agree with each-other and never discuss what we think could make something better! Bash me and not bash crutch?

I am not really bashing by saying some grinds are IMO better than others, thats my opinion and it seems you always have a problem with it.

No...You'd never bash Randalls. Re-read your history...and tell it to someone else. I've been reading your passive-aggressive style of non-praise for way too long.
Best, Capt. Chris

Duke -

I most assuredly will refer to that model as a bastard solely in the context it is not a #16, nor a #1.

If you read my posts with even a minor effort at intelligent thought, you would realize I was offering my opinion only. Not everyone is going to agree with it. Sorry if it doesn't jibe with yours. I am somewhat amiss as to your confusion. I thought I was pretty clear and offered photographic evidence to that effect.

I have offered the comparison for your perusal in an attempt to clear the air as to my thoughts on the subject. Again, you are free to disagree, but I think it is evident, the more aesthetically pleasing item.

Hey!...Who told you is was OK to copy my pics? Although it's too cold to mess with a "photo shoot" this morning, Crutch...I do like "both" the #16 and #16 special fighter. There's lots of redundancy in the knife world. Indeed, A Randall Model #8-4" and a Model #23-4 1/2" have almost identical lines.
Anyway: I value your opinion and a good bit of the time it's well-received...Just not this time! Good morning!
Best, Capt. Chris

Aha! Capt., you have made the case for me!

#8 and #23 are both clean original pieces, not two models put together (here it is again) as a solution to a problem that didn't exist.

Glad to help, dude! Does that mean you don't like the Model #8?...The Model #23?...or both?
Best, Capt. Chris
PS: You didn't say "good morning"...???
PPS: We're way off subject by now. Perhaps we should start a new thread???...CCS

I repeat myself a lot. Sometimes it is necessary (IMHO).

As some of you will recall my son Garrick, our original "RKS Special Fighter", took a model #16-SF to war as a Chief Petty Officer with Riverine Squadron One.
For ten months Garrick used the Randall on a daily basis in the tasks for which it was intended. Whether probing and prying into spider holes or hanging over the side of boat to clear a fouled net he found the model #16 Special Fighter to be supremely qualified for the job.
I'm sure that, like all warriors, Garrick takes care of his equipment so his equipment will take care of him. I'm equally certain that he has neither the time nor the inclination to fastidiously fuss over his knife yet, as you can see below, the Randall model #16 Special Fighter came through with flying colors. The proof is in the pudding.

I enjoyed reading this old thread about Special Fighters.

Like the ones I own very much. But I also like the Diver #16 type blade design too, especially with the Sawteeth.

The SF is a very comfortable knife to use for lots of jobs without needing a more hefty blade like a #14.

Rarely do I Baton stuff (I keep a saw for that type of wood collection).

JMO

Tom Vaught