Follow up:

And from Ron:



So according to Ron, Five Johnson made BB sheaths, three with center snap location, and a combination of both "east" and "west" facing RMK stamps. Hmmmmm. This is totally contradictory to what both he and Jack stated with unbridled affirmation later in Heiser vs. Johnson part I thread. Ron claims they are all Johnson's earlier in the thread but now they are Heiser/HKL. What changed?

Now while the three on the left do have "west" facing stamps and center snap location that according to Ron and Jack would make them Heiser/HKL, they do not even resemble the Heiser pictured a little bit. In fact, none of the five that Ron claims are Johnson's look like the Heiser on the far right, front or back.

**Note, that the belt loop width/shape on the back of sheath third from left is similar to the Heiser. Could that be a sign of an earliest example of a Johnson?

So I am agreeing with Ron's assessment, that these five (third one from left?) sheaths appear to be Johnson made. I am agreeing with Gary Clinton and Mitchell on knife #5 in Gary's photo. Same as the model 1-8 sheath that started this whole thing. Boom!

Joe,

Curious, have you ever seen another sheath with the same characteristics as the one in the photo or is this a pretty rare duck? Any chance of a getting a backside photo?

I have seen a few, literally, so I suppose it is scarce. Just never really put too much weight into it. Have the back photo, and was waiting for some comments but all I hear is crickets.

You will notice on the probable Johnson BB sheaths with center keeper, it seems on most of them the keeper strap is often too long and is interfered with by the stone pouch (except for the third from the left), maybe another reason he moved it over. (Notice the BD sheath pouch runs the same interference.) Check out Ron's 5 sheaths and you will see what I mean. The third from left though does not have that issue and it also has a wide belt loop. Does that mean anything? I dunno.

Thanks Joe. So is the theory: Johnson owned different stitching machines. At first, he used a stitching machine similar to Heiser that left the tooled edge by the stitches and then he eventually switched to a stitching machine that did not leave the tooled edge?

Tom,
Maurice Johnson (& later on, Johnny Johnson) leased their sewing machines. Floyd Byrd (That's right: Floyd Byrd) used to perform all of their routine maintenance for these machines. Floyd, owning a full-fledged machine shop, often made parts, etc. for all of Johnson Leather's machines.
I know that Johnson had, on several occasions, different sewing machines. I do "not" know, nor claim to know, if the earlier machines stitch pattern was different. It would certainly explain a lot???
Best, Capt. Chris

Not my theory. The "tooled" edge I believe is a misnomer in that it is a byproduct of the sewing process. In other words, it is a result of the foot pressure as far as I know and possibly the shape of the foot itself. I don't know if you can set the pressure intentionally to get that type of result or not. Sometimes Johnson's will have a bit of the tooled edge and sometimes they won't, at least early on. Heiser almost always had it and it is more pronounced.

So what are you getting at? If it has any "tooled" edge at all it is a Heiser? If it has none it is a Johnson? The sheath on the far left in Ron's photo appears to have a slight edge but it is difficult to tell for sure in the photo. Ron could clarify that.

Tom, when you look at the five sheaths in Ron's photo, do any look like the Heiser to the right? Stitching, leather, overall finish? Anybody else? Whaddya say?

I'm not certain the "tooled edge" is in fact what leather workers refer to "tooling" leather. It appears to me, if I'm seeing this correctly, the impression on the edge is caused by the die used in the clicker to cut the pieces.

A cursory view, again -if I'm seeing this issue correctly, shows the impression on the edge of all the pieces that were cut, sewn or not.

The amount of pressure any one machine was adjusted to would effect the depth of the impression.

Joe, lol, I'm not knowledgeable enough to get at anything. Just trying to understand it all, because I find it very interesting. I used to think the "tooled" edge was only a Heiser characteristic, but thanks to all the information in the two threads, I'll admit, I'm not so sure anymore.




I agree four of the five sheaths do not look like the Heiser on the right, but the third sheath looks a little different. When comparing it to the Heiser on the right, I see a resemblance in the stitching, belt loop shape, and the butterfly stitching, but that might just be me.

Agree, that is why I mentioned that and questioned that one. I don't have them in hand so going by photos. Good eye.