Joe,
Over the last 10 years I've seen you do a lot of good in the community by educating collectors on Randall history and dating knives, but you have your head stuck in the sand on this one. There's been a preponderance of evidence presented as who made these sheaths that even a newbie can grasp, yet you continue to throw smoke and clutch at straws. One can speculate on the reasons why, but IMO none of them are in the interest of the community or worthy of your reputation.
In response to your smoke:
The question about who made these sheaths and how and when they were stamped may never be settled with 100% certainty, but current evidence points to what we have been thinking for some time. This is not a new “debate”, and has been the topic of discussion amongst advanced collectors for many years.
1. Once you throw in "when they were stamped", it then becomes easy to say the question may never be settled with 100% certainty.
2. The currect evidence does
not point to what "we" have been thinking for some time. What we (You in particular) have been thinking for some time is that Johnson got involved earlier than Gary's recollection.
Questions that remain unanswered:
The singularly most important question is what was the impetus for Bo to have a stamp made in the first place? Because he had already found a local sheath maker? In the event he found a local sheath maker? He didn't like the new "Heiser" stamp? Why?
More:
1) exactly when the first stamp(s) was purchased?
2) did it stay in the Randall shop in Orlando?
3) was it shipped out of state?
4) was there more than one stamp initially made?
5) did the remnants of the H.H. Heiser Company ship unmarked sheaths to Randall?
6) were unmarked Heiser sheaths stamped with the RMK stamp in the Randall shop?
7) did Maurice Johnson stamp unmarked Heisers’ in his shop?
8) exactly when was Maurice Johnson involved in the sheath making business?
9) did Hesier stay in Denver upon the final sale or move to San Francisco or LA?
This myriad of questions are all part of the puzzle.
The singularly most important question is "who made these early sheaths" (~1960 through ~ mid 1962), and that has been answered with hard evidence. The hard evidence also strongly supports a logical scenario that after Heiser (finally) agreed to use a Randall stamp in the late 50's or early 60's, Bo sent them one and then sent Johnson a duplicate stamp when he was ready to produce. It was as simple as that. The rest of your questions are not germain to the crux of the issue.
I don’t know if the sheath stamp orientation alone is enough to say definitively the sheaths in question were made by Heiser. It is a function of how the cut pieces are laid out as the stamping is done prior to assembly, and as with most quality oriented manufacturers, continuity and uniformity are generally the rule of the day. It does lean in that direction however, and while it is not “new” information per se, having it as part of a series of characteristics, it adds to the evidence for those making a case.
The keeper snap location would also lean towards Heiser production, yet the two sheaths Ron posted photos of with the 3-6’s appear in some respects to be Johnson made.
The leather Hesier used was generally different than what Johnson used for the most part at least early on, but kind of became the same on some examples.
Then there is stitching which no one has addressed yet, and may be the most definitive difference.
I personally think that the “style” of the sheath in overall appearance is surely the most critical piece of evidence and what brought us here to begin with. The sheaths in question just “look” like a Heiser product, plain an simple. Take away all the minutia and just look at the sheath. What do you have? I addressed this in my last article on the subject linked previously in this thread.
There has not been just one or even just two distinct differences pointed out. There have been three:
1. Stamp orientation.
2. Keeper strap placement
3. The tooled edge.
How many do you want?
Here are a couple of sheaths to think about. Ron was looking for the “control” Johnson, well here it is. The black 1-7 sheath has never had a knife in it. The other “Johnson” is almost in the same condition. Note that the black sheath is LH, so the stamp is in the correct orientation that some believe identifies it as Heiser made, yet it is a Johnson made sheath. Hmmmmmm…….
Those two sheaths you posted a photo of are poster children for "The Heiser-Johnson brown button grand unification theory"!: All three of the differences are in evidence.
I will state again for the umpteenth time, that to eliminate grey areas and contradictions, and until concrete evidence that would answer some of the questions listed above presents itself, at this time and for my collecting purposes, and even though I may think differently, if a sheath has an RMK stamp, it is a Johnson.
I think you're on your own on this one, Joe. I can only hope that some day you give up the ghost and align with reality for the good of the community and the the history of Randall Made knives.
Best,
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