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#185745 - 02/11/20 09:21 PM Re: Virginia Passes Red Flag Law [Re: LarryWW1246]
pappy19 Online
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#185746 - 02/12/20 12:01 AM Re: Virginia Passes Red Flag Law [Re: pappy19]
pappy19 Online
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Now Virginia is against the Electoral College. I was born and raised in Virginia, but really wonder what it's future will be unless the conservative portion aligns with West Virginia or forms their own state of South Virginia.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/...urce=ForAmerica
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#185751 - 02/12/20 10:49 AM Re: Virginia Passes Red Flag Law [Re: pappy19]
Sidney_Redford Offline
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Pappy we are going to hell fast and I don't see any end in sight. Many of us will soon become felons if this passes!


Edited by Sidney_Redford (02/12/20 12:57 PM)
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#185779 - 02/14/20 01:23 AM Re: Virginia Passes Red Flag Law [Re: Sidney_Redford]
Duke Offline
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You know this is all feeling very surreal......a bad science fiction novel. And you're right Sidney. I'm feeling really not sure of what to do.....some really tough decisions are getting stuffed down my throat.
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#185781 - 02/14/20 08:48 AM Re: Virginia Passes Red Flag Law [Re: Duke]
LarryWW1246 Offline
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Something about the pro- and anti-gun people.

There is overlap in purpose--keeping guns away from people who will misuse them, safety with guns.

Part of the problem is that public figures use whatever they can to stir support, and pass laws that miss the mark. They feel successful just by passing laws, etc., and punishing people who they vilify in doing so. They don't know what they don't know, could care less as long as they gain followers, media attention, and donations.

Another part is that responsible gun owners are threatened because of the irresponsible behavior of other gun owners, being depicted as bad people all the way around, and are dismissed by the avid anti-gunners as being like the worst of the ones who misuse guns.

In the minds of avid anti-gunners, no accident or crime would happen if nobody owned guns. They could care less about the contributing factors:

Look at the failures on the part of parents and other responsible adults in making guns accessible to young people who have gone on rampages.

Consider the underground trade in guns that apparently keeps fueling interstate trafficking of stolen guns.

Consider how many legally owned guns are easily stolen from homes and out of vehicles--some actually left unlocked!

Consider how often sellers at gun shows might unknowingly sell a gun to somebody who is not legally qualified to own one.

Consider how few straw sells by FFL dealers get prosecuted.

Wonder if it might make a difference over time if responsible owners were to get to know individuals who are afraid of guns or not knowledgeable about them or even anti-gun, talk with them, and invite them to go the range and learn something about gun safety and shooting.

Or--how about the commercial shooting ranges inviting anti-gunners to attend education seminars and giving them a chance to learn and shoot?

We might make some new friends.
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#185784 - 02/14/20 02:07 PM Re: Virginia Passes Red Flag Law [Re: LarryWW1246]
pappy19 Online
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#185785 - 02/14/20 02:54 PM Re: Virginia Passes Red Flag Law [Re: LarryWW1246]
Duke Offline
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Everything you say sounds good Larry, is true and I mostly agree with, except for my "BUTs". AND I'm very seriously afraid the opportunities you list to educate, enlighten and encourage new unfearful "gun friends" has faded into the past. Recent conversations (that have happened due to this incredible VA legislature) with good, close friends of 30-40+ years have become irrationally argumentative & angry (100% them& not me) because of their overwhelming desire to "do something about guns"; which means passing laws that "feel good"; BUT will do nothing to stop these horrible, random shootings.
100% of these friends are incredulous & shocked to hear my positions and feelings primarily because they do not really listen & HEAR my rational, calm explainations as to why they are wrong as they speak from feelings and it has nothing to do with rational problem solving.
These are the same friends who I have taken skeet, trap and target shooting, at a range or at my home, on occasions over the past 3-4 decades.
They do not understand, nor feel the same responsibility/duty/right to protect my family, my friends, or the stranger in the Wal Mart parking lot, as I feel it.
The same as I taught my children (& they witnessed) re: "there are good guys all around you.....we're just quieter until we need to make a noise." This truly gave my teenage daughter a lot of comfort when she needed it.
AND where I live it is absolutely the wrong position to be in any way "for guns" because the Va Tech shooting (& others since) happened in my back yard.
And when really caught up in their fearful, irrational arguments these same folks forget that as a professional counselor I also worked closely with the law enforcement & 1st responders because I knew those guys and they knew that they could talk to me.
I do wish I knew the answer to this problem, BUT I only know the best thing would be to slow down, rationally problem solve and not slap it with a fearful response that will turn me into a felon because I WILL NOT turn in my dad's WWII M1.
And even if I did wouldn't any of us really rather have my 10 shot Marlin lever action anyway??
Truly crazy.......& sorry to pontificate.
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#185789 - 02/14/20 06:44 PM Re: Virginia Passes Red Flag Law [Re: Duke]
pappy19 Online
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Duke
It's ok to vent, but truly Virginia is in a serious situation. From Idaho, counties in Oregon and northern California are banding together for a November vote to secede from Oregon and California, and join to increase the size of Idaho. All because the large liberal cities are ruining the rest of their states. Virginia counties south of Charlottesville and Richmond, should do the same there ,and secede from Virginia and add to West Virginia. Something to consider.

Pap
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#185796 - 02/14/20 08:55 PM Re: Virginia Passes Red Flag Law [Re: pappy19]
LarryWW1246 Offline
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Duke,

I understand what you are up against. For some on the anti-gun side, they just don't see a "need" for guns, they are alarmed at the misdeeds, they think that if nobody had guns then the problem would go away.

And many of them would be the first to coddle troubled people who might pose a risk, not want them identified and singled out, and have no solutions for how to put troubled people on a positive path. Heck, some of them would have cried out if the warning signs from some of the shooters, and before guns were part of the picture, had been pulled into any sort of mandatory treatment.

And as you know, parents don't want their troubled children stigmatized, just treated as "normal."

And if you point out the demographics of much of the criminal misuse of guns, it makes you prejudiced.

The mentality of intolerance and confiscation of things that certain people simply do not like is surprising in what is supposed to be a liberal democracy.

You might recall that some of the anti-ivory legislation in the states called for an outright ban on possession per se--no matter how old the ivory and how far removed from the killing of modern elephants. Any person could report that someone owns ivory and law enforcement could come for them! I don't know if this actually went into effect, but it is a totalitarian mentality.

Irrationality prevails as a new measure is offered up to surpass and outdo measures suggested by other people. These things gather momentum, like any mass movement, and hysteria overtakes reason.

It has happened in many places--consider the French Revolution (or any revolution for that matter, but the Great Terror came to define the French Revolution), the rise of Fascism and the Nazis, the McCarthy era, and modern China where they score the social conformity and reliability of their citizens!

Larry
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#185797 - 02/14/20 09:05 PM Re: Virginia Passes Red Flag Law [Re: pappy19]
Sidney_Redford Offline
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Pappy I would go for that. I may have to move if things get any crazier. I am really to old to be moving but may not have any choice.
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