#180720 - 06/05/19 07:02 PM
My Mystery Model 14
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 1078
Loc: Fayetteville NC
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A last minute collection purchase prior to leaving for "Hotlanta", included this Model 14. Its a puzzle to me, but I'm easy to be puzzled. Thought maybe one of y'all (all y'alls?) could enlighten me on what we are looking at here.
The first two "suspects" were the slanted (not a flat top) brass butt cap and the oversized brass name plate, neither of which I thought came out of the Shop, unless it was done in the early years by customer request.
The work appears to be neatly done looking at the spacers. My only thought was that it was done by a fairly talented knifemaker who started with a Randall kit blade. I guess the sheath was made by Mr Johnson Sr, but the stitching bothers me a little; its tight but maybe not uniform?
I appreciate any enlightenment you can provide. Thanks.
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Buck Buchanan, RKCC #CM-16, RKS #1003 NRA LIFE NMLRA LIFE Authorized Randall Dealer buck100_10x@icloud.com
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#180727 - 06/06/19 10:20 AM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: Buck Buchanan]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 2258
Loc: central fl.
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All the experts must be in Atlanta all ready, but I can tell u what I see...
Looks as if it's a rehandled knife to me, solder looks good, fibers aren't ours and it's a pinned buttcap... and we definitely did not do the nameplate... I'll leave the sheath to the experts though...
See you tomorrow sir...
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---DW---
Scott RKS #014
HE IS RISEN!, HE IS RISEN INDEED!
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#180787 - 06/10/19 11:47 AM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: Dirty_Water]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 1078
Loc: Fayetteville NC
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It caused quite a stir and interest here from private messages and people walking up to my table at the Blade Show; "Is that the Mystery Model 14?".
I got advice from Art Green, Gary Clinton, Scott Maynard, Chris Stanaback, Mitchell Harrison, and other prominent collectors and students of the Randall world, including two of the most well=known authorities.
One of them should get the Model 14 in their hands by Friday via USPS P.M.
Edited by Buck Buchanan (06/10/19 11:47 AM)
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Buck Buchanan, RKCC #CM-16, RKS #1003 NRA LIFE NMLRA LIFE Authorized Randall Dealer buck100_10x@icloud.com
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#180788 - 06/10/19 12:17 PM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: Buck Buchanan]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 2122
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Buck
What was the consensus on the sheath?
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Rod Brown RKS 3846 RKCC CM-123 Whether you think you can or can not, you are right.
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#180792 - 06/10/19 01:59 PM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: Captain Chris Stanaback]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1114
Loc: the other side of the earth
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I see that the butt is attached with a pin. Maybe Tommy Bish?
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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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#180795 - 06/10/19 06:53 PM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: rodbrown]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 2255
Loc: NW Mississippi
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Buck
What was the consensus on the sheath? Rod what do you mean? What do you want to know about the sheath? It’s a Maurice Johnson RB. Hope this helps.
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Ronnie RKS#2166
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#180797 - 06/10/19 07:11 PM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: Ronnie]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 2122
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Buck said I guess the sheath was made by Johnson, but Buck wasn’t sure about the stitching. I thought Johnson, but wondered if Buck found out otherwise at Blade. Thanks Ronnie.
_________________________
Rod Brown RKS 3846 RKCC CM-123 Whether you think you can or can not, you are right.
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#180798 - 06/10/19 07:13 PM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: rodbrown]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 2255
Loc: NW Mississippi
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No it is square up a JRB. Have a good one.
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Ronnie RKS#2166
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#180812 - 06/10/19 10:01 PM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: Ronnie]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 1078
Loc: Fayetteville NC
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Rod,
One friend thought it was a "counterfeit" sheath by Byrd. It was pointed out that the Randall stamp is "facing" (reading from) the 3:00 position instead of the 9:00 position. Other friends still believe its a Maurice Johnson sheath, mid '70's to mid '80's, and the stamp was positioned in error.
One thought the handle work was by Tom Leschhorn (sp). Others think the result would not have been up to his standards. To me, the oversized name plate indicates possibly it was added later by someone for the last owner.
_________________________
Buck Buchanan, RKCC #CM-16, RKS #1003 NRA LIFE NMLRA LIFE Authorized Randall Dealer buck100_10x@icloud.com
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#180819 - 06/11/19 07:04 AM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: Buck Buchanan]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 2122
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Thank you Buck.
_________________________
Rod Brown RKS 3846 RKCC CM-123 Whether you think you can or can not, you are right.
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#180820 - 06/11/19 07:57 AM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: Buck Buchanan]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2841
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Rod,
One friend thought it was a "counterfeit" sheath by Byrd. It was pointed out that the Randall stamp is "facing" (reading from) the 3:00 position instead of the 9:00 position. Other friends still believe its a Maurice Johnson sheath, mid '70's to mid '80's, and the stamp was positioned in error.
One thought the handle work was by Tom Leschhorn (sp). Others think the result would not have been up to his standards. To me, the oversized name plate indicates possibly it was added later by someone for the last owner. Not certain what that means.
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#180823 - 06/11/19 09:44 AM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: crutchtip]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 1078
Loc: Fayetteville NC
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Joe,
Looking at the photo of the sheath stamp, is it in the correct position?
Maybe I should have written, "the stamp was not facing in the correct position".
_________________________
Buck Buchanan, RKCC #CM-16, RKS #1003 NRA LIFE NMLRA LIFE Authorized Randall Dealer buck100_10x@icloud.com
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#180911 - 06/18/19 10:48 AM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: Captain Chris Stanaback]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 1078
Loc: Fayetteville NC
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I received only three comments on this Forum as to the possible maker. I got three different answers.
I took it to the Blade Show for what I had hoped would be a concensus of experienced opinion as to the individual who finished it. But among five or six friends there was no agreement. One dealer said the sheath was made by Byrd, two said definitely Johnson.
I like to be truthful in all my dealings with customers to the best of my knowledge. I am not interested in passing off a counterfeit piece or something it's not.
I sold it to a customer who wanted first refusal, and I simply stated that only the blade came from the Shop and in the '80's. The sheath was possibly a M. Johnson production. The knife was rehandled by an unknown individual, since five or six friends could not agree on the craftsman who finished it..
Current production Randalls are my forte. Historic Randalls from the '40's through the '70's are another balliwick. That concerns me for nailing down age and value; which is why I lean on Joe Dorsky, Mitchell Harrison, Chris Stanaback, Gary Clinton, and Art Green just to name a few.
If I had known this Model 14 were to put me in league with folks who take advantage of a knife's questionable "pedigree", I wouldn't have bought it.
I purchased it thinking it was maybe a "one off" from the Shop or a customer's request to "Bo" Randall, to make. That's what knowledgeable friends are for, to "take it apart" & agree to its origin.
Chris's is right on the advice. I hope the new owner will send their new purchase to Joe Dorsky to appraise & substantiate. That would be the smart thing to do.
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Buck Buchanan, RKCC #CM-16, RKS #1003 NRA LIFE NMLRA LIFE Authorized Randall Dealer buck100_10x@icloud.com
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#180913 - 06/18/19 01:56 PM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: desert.snake]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2841
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I see that the butt is attached with a pin. Maybe Tommy Bish? This knife appears a bit later than when Bish was working on knives. He was done probably around the late 70's. The blade and hilt appear to be 80's-90's anyway. I think the sheath stamp orientation is a non issue. There were some questions as to whether it was a Byrd copy, and they can be tough to spot, with many passing as original Johnson's. I wasn't at Blade to see this knife, but the several folks I spoke to that did see it alluded to a re-handle. None thought it was done by Leschorn, White, or Bish. FB would be capable of doing it, and IF it was one of his sheaths, that would pretty much confirm it. One thing you have to consider, those three guys that did Randall work outside the shop generally worked on smaller blades, with the only full tang model i know of being a 15 that Leschorn worked on. Leschorn did do some Bear Bowies, and Bish did some full sized knives like 1-8 & 2-8, but other than the 15 I know of, no other full tang models, even as a CDT version of that model. The black & brass spacer arrangement would be uncommon for the early to mid-80's, not impossible, but uncommon, and is a real departure from what one would expect to see from Leschorn, White, oe Bish and their "trademark" spacer arrangements. Again, I didn't see it, so going on what others told me with no official opinion w/o seeing it in hand.
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#180915 - 06/18/19 02:19 PM
Re: My Mystery Model 14
[Re: crutchtip]
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Knife Enthusiast
Registered: 12/16/17
Posts: 19
Loc: Groton, Connecticut
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I am enjoying the solving of the mystery/history of this knife. Leaning the fine details of the original craftsman along with what doesn’t match up and why.
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Jim
NRA Life Member 82nd Abn Div Assoc - Life Member
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