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#170407 - 04/18/18 05:31 PM The Big Tough Folder...
Lofty Offline
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Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
I have needed and used them for a lifetime, still have my Puma Game Warden from 1973. Then came others of lighter build and higher tech, the AFCK and etc.

Tried quite a few, settled on fewer. The top two are 1/8th" thick blades, the 3rd down is the beefed up version of the 2nd, with larger pivot and stop pin, with 0.140" thick blade, and the bottom knife is 4" of 3/16ths" thick steel. Aside from the top H1 knife, all are S35VN steel.

Of them all, only the bottom Rick Hinderer comes close to the elusive fixed blade strength in a folder. The solid stop stud through the blade is 1/4" diameter and pressed through. It butts against frame when open, preventing blade from breaking back over the top, braces to side against lateral play, and only could eventually be pounded closed by beating on the spine to peen/collapse the titanium frame lock. Pretty much as strong (and as heavy, at just under 8oz) as any 4" heavy bladed full length, reduced/stick tang knife, but still lags the euphemistic "full tang" of full handle size. And yet, a "Dependable Custom Knife", as former fireman/EMT/rescue diver Hinderer calls them, designing his own after failure of a touted emergency knife liner lock while cutting away a seat at an accident scene. The grind is quite good on this spearpoint version, immensely strong tip with useful cutting/carving edge not left over-thick as many.

As the saying goes, a big knife can often do a small knife job, but a small knife never able to do a big knife job.











Gratuitous last shot for the curious. Depending on angle and light, the scale can appear 100% purple over entire surface including flats, or same in blue, and any coverage and shade in between. It was pretty. What can I say? Men's jewelry of some utility, at least.



In all truth, the top Spyderco does anything needed, day in and day out, is far more comfortable due to rounded scales and low key texturing, easier to open and close, and the only one forgotten as soon as clipped inside waistband. So, naturally, they are phasing out this style.


Edited by Lofty (04/19/18 01:14 AM)
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#170412 - 04/18/18 07:50 PM Re: The Big Tough Folder... [Re: Lofty]
W Polidori Offline
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Registered: 02/09/16
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Loc: Central New York
Biggest folder I ever owned was a Benchmade 610 Rukas. It was a big knife, combo blade.
I gave it to a friend as a 50th Bday present since he could make good use for it. I also owned a Mini-Rukas limited auto but it pailed in comparison to it's larger brother. The Axis lock work in the Benchmade knives is bulletproof and made to last.
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#170414 - 04/18/18 08:30 PM Re: The Big Tough Folder... [Re: W Polidori]
Lofty Offline
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Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
I remember the 610, but, had to look up specs. By way of comparison with above posted knives, it had the thickness of the thicker Reeve, but 1/4" more length than the Hinderer, and almost identical weight just under 8oz. Probably carried even more handle total length than the 1/4" suggests, due to style?

The Hinderer has very little handle past folded blade tip, or it would be down to mid trouser rear pocket when clipped IWB.

The Rukus was a manly man knife, for sure.

I still should be able to dig up another big old folder or two, if I remember. Hopefully, others will chime in with their folding swords, crowbars, or memories thereof. Guys always go large, needed or able to be used, or not.
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#170417 - 04/18/18 08:55 PM Re: The Big Tough Folder... [Re: Lofty]
W Polidori Offline
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Registered: 02/09/16
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Loc: Central New York
Way I always heard it the Benchmade caused a Ruckas. Looking into it further I had a Benchmade 610BKS.
So, how bout a folder with a 4.25" blade,


Edited by W Polidori (04/18/18 09:01 PM)
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#170418 - 04/19/18 12:48 AM Re: The Big Tough Folder... [Re: W Polidori]
Lofty Offline
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Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
My own attitude has always been, "why carry a 3" blade if I can carry a 4" blade?" So, 4 1/4" sounds good to me, too.

However, most knives pull up short by some fraction of an inch of that 4" mark, and many of those still have had handle designs which really made them a pain to wear.

That may be why the common length shorter than 4", but also suspect their larger markets may have legal impediments in longer blades, and no sense making a knife which most of the market cannot buy.

My old AFCK, really the first G10/titanium/wondersteel(ATS34 at the time)/liner-lock "custom quality" to hit the mass market, and really nothing but a Spyderco in design and even royalties, was just not very comfortable. Too long, too hard edged.

The Hinderer really somewhat an easier carry due to better shaping, despite weighing what must be about twice as much.

I learned some lessons from that AFCK in what to look for, to dodge such problems again in fair amounts blown on unworkable designs, and mostly successful. Mostly.


Edited by Lofty (04/19/18 12:49 AM)
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#170419 - 04/19/18 03:40 AM Re: The Big Tough Folder... [Re: Lofty]
desert.snake Offline
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Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1072
Loc: the other side of the earth
Big folding knives, it's cool, that's my favorite.
We have a restriction on folding knives with a lock,
the maximum length of the blade is 15 cm,
this is 13.9 cm (5.5") and strong enough lock smile


Attachments
------3086600.jpg


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#170426 - 04/19/18 09:58 AM Re: The Big Tough Folder... [Re: desert.snake]
Lofty Offline
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Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
Now THAT'S a pocket knife. For pockets in what, I do not know. Perhaps a backpack?

Most length restrictions are rather stupid, anywhere, as by the time one gets to most restricted lengths in most places, nobody wants to carry the things. Giant Al Mar SERE, giant Spyderco Szabo or Catcherman at 4.6"/4.75" respective blade lengths and circa 10.5" open lengths, some of the Cold Steel, some traditional Spanish and Italian blades, they are huge in handle, as long as many sword handles.

Many bolstered designs quite heavy, and make a Buck 110 feel as a lightweight.

I freely admit the Hinderer is about my maximum for a daily driver, and truthfully pleased and suprised it turned out useful.

There have been shorter and stouter than it, and same weight, even. A friend reminded me of his DPx HEST folder with 0.190" thick blade from 5-7yrs ago and I see the DPx V2.0 is on the market, but no idea as to thickness or size (but clips attached to end normally quite weak as my friend found out with original DPx and it fell to parking lot pavement several times when dismounting).

For scale, my personal best as for Olympic power-lifting.











Some call that metal finish "stonewash", Rick simply calls it his working finish, and I call it "delux American padlock", which matches the opening and closing sounds. He made higher finishes but everybody was opting for working finish, and so.....will admit it makes for a no fear finish. The dotted Reeve has yet to cut even string, the blade grind so perfect, and only carried for personal oggling.


PS-- a day later am playing with not really good cell phone camera and trying to push it, clearly not up to job in a couple of shots, ready to delete playtime. But, then, thought someone might be curious as to what one looked like close-up, how knife edge was handled, what edges were where. The finger cut is quite comfy, talking right handed, index crease lays in scallop edge. Rear corner has the titanium side against heel of palm. Separately made parts fit pretty much perfect with any slight mismatch purely from titanium parts being tumbled, while G10 is not. Entire knife an excellent exercise in machine engraving. I DO love precision work.

It may not be rocket science, but it sure is close. And all to make a first responder knife for gloved hands, and carving away car seats and dismembering dashboards. (an two sale two idgits like me)











There is no fuzz on any G10 cut, including lanyard hole which is as clean as any other cut, only light reflections on metal in background and off of G10 high spots on the negative diamond pattern.


Edited by Lofty (04/21/18 12:39 AM)
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#170428 - 04/19/18 05:13 PM Re: The Big Tough Folder... [Re: Lofty]
Lofty Offline
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Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
The Puma Game Warden has survived me as the single owner since earliest 70's. Am quite proud to have put every bit of wear on scales and brass, and we have been many places and done many things together.

The Cold Steel take on the Opinel has a 1/8th" thick flat ground blade of Sharon 0170-6 steel given the hi-zoot molten salt bath treatment by blade metals expert Dan Maragni and pals at the Camillus facility at same time as he was doing the blades for the Ethan Becker original line knives, Cold Steel called theirs Carbon V. When Camillus went away, so did Carbon V for those who did not know. Sharon closing down did not help, either.

Others have nearly copied the alloy (which may still be patented) but only AG Russell is currently copying the heat treat on his Sandbox Bowie and a few others, and it seems using metal from a private reserve of Maragni, reading between the lines on materials description. (ed-actually AG bought several tons at the Camillus bankruptcy auction, it turns out).

This particular knife has been beat through hawsers, pried open cans of lube, sliced roast beef and birthday cakes, and lived in adventure work kit and tool bag its entire life. I HAVE managed to dull the edge near very tip. Once.







Edited by Lofty (04/21/18 03:46 AM)
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#170450 - 04/21/18 03:44 AM Re: The Big Tough Folder... [Re: Lofty]
Lofty Offline
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Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
When mentioning tough knives, Dan Maragni should always come up. For those who say "Dan who?", Dan has been instrumental in advances in blade manufacture technology. He studied history, the blade makers, and blades to microscopic levels, studied metallic transformations during heat treating, conducted his own years long and ongoing experimentation, studied and taught to highest levels the art of forging blades. And what forging did, he pretty much managed to duplicate to the microscopic level in factory production blades using sophisticated heat treatments and quenches. He personally made several company lines legends in toughness and durability, in particular the early original Becker knives, as well as Cold Steel's Carbon V knives such as the original Trailmaster. And even the incredibly durable blade of the lowly Twistmaster in above post.

So, when you are ever considering a knife, and it turns out Dan Maragni was involved in the R&D, think on this, rather than say "Dan who?"...you will get a tough knife.
From his own bio.

EMPLOYMENT
1988-2006 Head of Domestic Production for Cold Steel, Inc. Brought Cold Steel production to Alcas Cutlery Corp., Ontario Knife Co, Western Cutlery and Camillus Cutlery Co. Duties included overseeing every step and operation used in the production of Cold Steel knives from metallurgical examination of the incoming material to final inspection and packing. Developed Carbon V material/heat treatment, modified and improved the heat treatment to Cold Steel standards, established procedures and trained sharpeners. My position ended with the collapse of Camillus Cutlery Co. in June 2006.
1982-2006 Technical consultant to Cold Steel Inc.
1979-1988 Custom bladesmith specializing in high carbon, performance oriented knives. American Bladesmith Society Mastersmith rating and Voting Member of the Knifemakers Guild 1983-2003.

TEACHING
2005, 2000 and 1995-Founded, organized, directed, demonstrated and 
lectured at the NEBG Ashokan Sword Seminars. Lectures included “Introduction to Swords”, “European Sword Technology”, “Physical Characteristics of European Cutting Swords 250 BC to 1200 AD”, “Medieval Sword Reconstruction” and “Violent, Bloody Death” a look at forensic archeology associated with edged weapons.
2003 Lectured on “Development of Blade Patterns from Laminated and Twisted Structures” and demonstrated pattern development using Fimo clay at the annual Timonium Ethnographic Seminar.
2003 Lecture/Slide Show “From the Celts to the Normans: Early Sword Development in Europe” and demonstrated European swordsmithing at the Association for Renaissance Martial Arts 2003 International Gathering in Sandy Creek, NY.
2003 Lecture/Slide Show on “Celtic Art” at Mohawk Valley Community College as part of the visiting lecturers series.
2002 Lectured and demonstrated at the ARMA Princeton Seminar on “What is a Real Sword”.
1976-1996 Taught Bladesmithing classes at Naples Mill School of Arts and Crafts, Peter’s Valley Crafts, Brookfield Craft Center and Penland School of Crafts.
1991-1994 Lectured on “Fighting Knife Design Concepts” and “Beating the Edged Weapon Paradox: Blade Construction Techniques Throughout Time and the World” at the Northeast Martial Arts Conference.
1983-1994 Organized, directed, demonstrated and lectured at the New England Bladesmiths Guild Ashokan Seminar.
1990, 1993 Demonstrated “Blade Forging and Heat Treatment” and lectured on “Basic Metallurgy” and “How Every Sword was Ever Made in Any Time and Any Place” at the Artist Blacksmith Association of North America Conferences.
1990-1992 Lectured on “Evolution of the Japanese Sword from the Kofun/Nara to the Edo Period”, “Evolution of Japanese Weapons and Warfare from the Kofun/Nara to the Edo Period” and “Functional Fighting Knife Design Concepts” at the annual Zen Do Kai Seminars in Cazenovia, NY.
1980-1982 Demonstrated blade forging and lectured on heat treatment at the NEBG Ashokan Seminar. Founding member of the NEBG.

PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT
1996-2007 Built a prototype commercial heat treatment set up using digitally controlled furnaces and an agitated oil quench. I have been running experiments with a variety of carbon and alloy steels and making and testing blades of these materials. All these experiments and processes are documented and metallurgically examined by Metallurgical Consulting, Marcellus, NY.
1998 Research trip to Europe (Italy, Switzerland, Germany and England) with Dr. Lee Jones. Examined swords from the Celtic period through the Renaissance in museums and private collections.
1996 Research trip to England with noted arms collector and co-author of “Swords of the Viking Age” Dr. Lee Jones. Examined swords in museums and private collections and met with international arms authority and author Mr. Ewart Oakshotte.
1993 Research trip to Japan. Met with Mr. Takuo Onoue, prefectual metallurgist and Japanese swordexpert and swordsmith Mr. Kanemasa Oono.
1993 Completed Level One of the ASM Heat Treating Certificate of Achievement Program.
1992 ASM Course at Materials Park, Ohio “Heat Treating and Quenchant Techology” with Dr. George Totten and Dr. Charles Bates.
1991 Completed ASM Local Chapter Course “Stainless Steels”.
1988 Completed ASM Local Chapter Course “Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist”.
1985-1992 Studied Kali, Muay Thai and Jun Fun Kung Fu with Sifu Kevin Seaman.
1969-1971 Studied Three Weapon Classical Fencing with Maestro Oscar Kolombatovitch.

PROFESSIONAL MEMBERSHIPS
American Bladesmiths Society- Mastersmith Rating- 1983-2003
Artist-Blacksmith’s Association of North America
American Society of Materials International
Japanese Sword Society of the United States
Knifemakers Guild- Voting Member- 1983-2003
The Historical Metallurgical Society


Although not a folder, the short following clip is the result of AGR using the out of print Sharon 0170-6 steel and having it treated under Dan's supervision. Note this is not the normal filmed cinder block, but a true construction grade 40lb block, and every strike is max effort, and aimed only at corners of the block, using only the edge of the blade, guaranteed to wreck most knives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDSOwkXxlGE


Edited by Lofty (04/21/18 04:05 AM)
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Cadent a latere tuo mille, et decem millia a dextris tuis;
ad te autem non appropinquabit.

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#170452 - 04/21/18 04:45 AM Re: The Big Tough Folder... [Re: Lofty]
desert.snake Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1072
Loc: the other side of the earth
Thank you! smile

Cool, he seems to be as big a master of heat treatment as Paul Bos.

As for the video, these slag blocks are very fragile,
Most knives made of low-carbon steel will destroyed
this block, but how about keeping the edge
and flexural strength?

My friend several years ago conducted complex tests
for strength, unfortunately, these are not laboratory
tests with the possibility of repetition of loads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB2cEyNPQDc

He made only one mistake in my opinion - he used
a steel hammer. Then he switched to rubber hammers.

You're right, I wear CS Espada in my backpack.
Constantly with myself in pocket I wear Emerson CQC8
with 3.5" blade
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