New member here. Hope this is posted in the correct area. I got this knife 2nd hand and don't know what model it is. The shape suggests a 26, but according to the Randall catalog, it should be a 4 inch blade-this is 3 3/8. The catalog pictures a sheath with a strap and snap-this is more like a #10, but not exactly. Did they make a 26-3? It's 7 1/2 inches overall, stainless blade, nickel silver hilt, maybe walnut handle that flairs out at the end, wrist thong. Any thoughts?
(All photos are under 1.95 MB)

Maybe a GTR Special.

Ducati, huh? rode 'em for years in the 90s.

Looks like an early Pathfinder to me. Eric had a knife in a thread here not long ago looked the same. Seem to recall early ones were not marked.

It is not a #26 in my opinion. I believe it is a GTR Special, 3 1/2” blade of 3/16 stainless. Approx. 4” handle.. Nice Knife!

It is a Model 26 with a short blade. Early Pathfinder sheath.

Bill,

Didn't some of the show up in Jack Criders green catalog?

It's an #11-31/4"...the little #11, on the "non-catalog" list
:-)Rocky

The GTR has more of a hump on the back near the hilt and the shape is wrong for the 11... I vote for a version of a #26.

Just my $0.02.

There is a small hump. Maybe they started to do it as a GTR,
but they overgrind the tip and had to redo it into
a small version #26?

In any case, the knife is very cool!!

TB, Wouldn't a early #26 have a different blade grind.

Those had standard or slightly longer blade lengths.

One other option that is plausible.....

Could it be one of Dave Griffin's Drop Point knives?

Maybe Scott has some clues?

Sorry gentleman, but you're all mistaken...this is one of the stolen BLADES knives from the "raspy voice" dude from a few years back...long story...maybe another day...

Rhutt Rhoo!!!!

Thank you Scott. Another mystery solved!

For all of us relative 'newbies' on the scene, please don't leave us hanging. Inquiring minds want to know.

What's the deal with "the stolen BLADE knives from the "raspy voice" dude a few years back"? Can we get at least a capsule summary of the situation?

Is the pictured knife a genuine RMK shop-made knife? Is it a fake? Is it an altered shop-made knife? How it is identified as one of "the stolen BLADE knives from the raspy voice dude"? What model is it (or what model is it supposed to be)? To my relatively inexperienced eye, it looks more like a scaled-down Model 26 than anything else.

Thanks.

Bob

I figured this thread could get interesting but had no idea it would be THIS interesting. Carry on men. ;-)

I want to caution using the terms "fake" and "altered" interchangeably. They are two distinct animals.

Fakes are readily identifiable as is the knife Tune posted.

Altered can sometimes throw a curve ball as this one did until DW chimed in.

The sheath appears correct...and Scott is also. I almost held this dude at my table, many moons ago, long enough to get the "Law-Dogs" to question him. He was walking around a Lakeland gun show with about 20 altered RMK's on a bandalero belt, over one shoulder! Many were Model #14's, #15's, etc. and all of those sheaths were fake, i.e. having not been made by Sullivans or Johnson. They had the correct-looking sheath "stamp" but not correct leather. It should be noted that I have downloaded these pics to my computer for a better look.
This guy did, indeed, have a very raspy voice. He was short and heavy set, wearing large Rx glasses, highly magnified. He was buddies with Charlie Scannapeico and, after the Lakeland encounter, he submerged...not to be seen again!
Caveat Emptor,
Capt. Chris
PS: I'm back...but swamped...CCS

Thanks for the info so far. More photos attached. The blade is only 7/8 inch at its widest, 3/16 stock. Handle length, including the spacer, is 3 13/16.
It doesn't have the blade width of the 11 3 1/4, and the stamp on the blade is straight not angled. Handle length and stated sheath don't match.
It has a drop point, unlike the GTR.
The grind differs from the Dave Griffin photos I can see online. His sheath maker seams to be the same as mine. My sheath has no "R", and has Fla. in the stamp. My blade is stamped with Fl.
I bought it from a gun dealer's table at a gun show in Phoenix. I am happy to entertain that it may be altered, or mismatched to the sheath. But, I have lots of other Randalls, purchased directly from RMK, and the fit and finish of this one appear just as finely done and original as any. It doesn't appear altered, and why would someone alter one?
Happy to show it to anyone more knowledgeable than me in the Phoenix area if interested.

Stolen blade, done outside the shop, MAYBE from former employee, looks like crap when next to one directly from the shop...sheath most likely done with the same equipment as your original because their the SAME machines, a little BYRDie did it...

Thanks for all the input. I knew I came to the right spot for answers.
The sheath was made by Byrd, and stamped with RMK to deceive?
Since the guesses have stopped, I take it the last post is the consensus opinion? If I understand correctly, reading these posts and the revived "Randall Phony Alert" thread, something about my "26" knife (shape, size, grind, finish) gives clues to the trained eye, that this is 1 of 20 or so knives made from blanks stolen from RMK, and finished off outside the shop by the someone else, (maybe the thief), 10 years ago. A person with skills, equipment, factory training, and other Randall materials to convincingly mimic factory work, by shaping the blade and handle, assembling and finishing the knife, but also altering the knife to a degree that makes it unique.
The logo stamp appears correct, so he must have gotten the blank after that stage, before assembly. A very rare knife indeed, but not a true factory RMK, if true.
On the other hand, comparing it to another small factory RMK, a 4-4, it shows many similarities, and does not look like crap. Like the way the hilt is fitted to the blade and soldered in place. The hilt on the "26" is larger, but I note on photos of Dave Griffin drop points, different size hilts are seen on small knives, so Randall did do this. The spacers and thong installation seem comparable to other Randalls. The handle seems similar to other teardrop Randalls. Looks like it could dance with the 25-5.
Who ever finished this knife was talented- it's better than other handmade knives I've paid more for. Makes sense he might have been an ex employee. Or a real employee, done on the factory line. Don't know which story I wish were true. I should name this knife Occam's Razor. (see photos for examples)

I resized your pics.

Actually, it does make for a pretty cool story. Interesting piece of Randall lore. Maybe buying that knife was not such a bad thing after all.

Sure, as long as your OK with NO warranty and a "polex" instead of a Rolex...

"it shows many similarities, and does not look like crap"

Directly compared to a RMK shop produced model 26...YES, it does

Okay, okay, I get it. Just trying to make a little lemonade from the lemons (or chicken salad front the chicken xxxx). Besides, most of my Randalls have no warranty since I'm not the original owner. And, I still think it's is an interesting bit of Randall lore even if it does have a shady side. A Thumbless Joe Bagadonuts Special. ;-)

It's not interesting at all to some folks...

It's a blatant slap in the face to the people who have spent the better part of their lives making ACTUAL Randall knives and taking pride in the amount of hard work, time , and skill they have actually put into building and maintaining a name.

"Interesting" and "Randall lore" do not even belong anywhere near this...

Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone.

The warranty doesn't transfer?

No offense taken from u my friend, just the raspy voice dude...

I Have a question I have asked before but never gotten an answer. I bought a knife years back very inexpensive knew it was modified with almost a saw teeth no saw teeth grind on a model 23. The thing I found interesting was etched on the blade is owner modified. So the question is who etched it? If someone was trying to past it off as a rare they would not have done it. Would the shop have etched it if it went in for warranty work and told the owner it was not under warranty and would only send it back with the etching. Can anyone shed some light on the etching.

James A. Moscatelli

Please permit me to share some thoughts on what strikes me as being “the elephant in the room” regarding the discussion on this thread.

Nothing in this comment is, nor is it intended to be, legal advice. Nothing in this comment is, nor is it intended to be, an accusation, allegation or assertion of any crime and/or any malfeasance or impropriety.

Has any consideration been given to the potential ramifications of the pictured knife being confirmed as one of the “raspy voice dude” or similarly described blades? If so confirmed, then it may be possible that the knife could, depending upon the law of the state/local jurisdiction, be classified as stolen property. Such a classification could potentially give rise to both criminal and civil law concerns.

From a criminal law perspective, under the penal code of most states, possession of what is alleged or known to be stolen property may result in criminal charges/allegations being filed (which is certainly not the same as a conviction, but who needs the time, expense and grief?). Whether this could occur depends upon numerous factors, including, among others, whether the possessor knew or knows that the property was stolen, and the possessor’s intent in taking possession of the property. The laws of the state/local jurisdiction should be reviewed, or a local attorney should be consulted, to determine potential concerns regarding any particular circumstances.

From a civil law perspective, under the common or commercial law of most states, RMK, as the original owner of the stolen blades, retains its ownership interest in them, and has the right to recover its previously stolen property. This is expressed in the legal rules "Nemo dat quod non habet" ("He who hath not, cannot give") and "Nemo plus iuris ad alium transferre potest quam ipse habet" (“No one can transfer more right to another than he has himself”). Translations/definitions from Black's Law Dictionary. By way of example, consider the lawsuits filed to recover art and other personal property stolen/looted by the Nazis during WWII and the Holocaust. These recovery lawsuits were often filed by the original owners (or their descendants) under these, or similar, laws/rules/legal concepts.

In short, these civil laws/rules mean that a thief has no valid title or right in, or to, what he stole, and so he cannot sell or transfer valid title to the item. Conversely, a buyer of a stolen item obtains physical possession only, and does not purchase ownership title or right in or to the item. Put another way, the buyer can't buy what the seller never had to sell (which for stolen goods is valid title or ownership right). These rules usually apply even if the buyer is an 'innocent' purchaser (also known as a "bona fide" purchaser), meaning one who doesn't know that the item was stolen, or that the seller had no right to claim ownership of the item. Many states/jurisdictions provide for exceptions to these rules for a bona fide purchaser, often providing him/her recourse against the seller of the item (though usually not against the original 'rightful' owner from whom the property was stolen). Again, the laws of the state/local jurisdiction should be reviewed, or a local attorney consulted, to determine potential concerns regarding any particular circumstances.

While I appreciate the knowledge and information shared on this thread, given these circumstances and the possible ramifications, certain comments made in a public forum discussion may not be the wisest course of action.

Just some food for thought...

Bob

My friend bought an apartment, a few years later it turned
out that the seller fraudulently took possession
of the documents for the apartment (having processed
the psychotropic substances of the real owner and
received his signature). As a result, the apartment was
seized and my friend is forced to live with relatives.
But he was not arrested, since he did not know that the
apartment was stolen - this big problem.

In this case, I do not see any problems.
I think the following way.

RMK was looking for these blades via police,
and is there a complete list of them with a description
(or photo) so can accurately determine what exactly
they were stolen?

If can not documentably determine that this is a stolen
blade, then we can say that it's just a modified
by an unknown person blade # 26 and not assembled
in the store.
That is, it is not subject to withdrawal,
but the guarantee does not apply to it.

It's just my 2 pennies

After speaking directly with Scott at Randall Made Knives, I am convinced this knife is in fact made from a blade stolen from RMK, and finished by someone else. He shared with me characteristics that he saw that identified it as such, and some of the background to the story.
My voice is not raspy, and I have never been to Florida. My intent was never to pass this knife off as something it was not. That is why I did not offer it for sale, but asked for input on what model it was, on a Randall forum. Turns out it was part of a theft years ago. RMK does not wish the knife returned to them, as much time has passed since the theft.
Since the blade itself is genuine stock and of high quality, Scott suggested having it re-handled by Behring, to make it unique, and no longer something that can deceive others by being represented as a Randall Made Knife. I will look into that, and maybe have a truly special knife.
Thanks to Scott and all who helped this thread along.

THAT is a perfect solution!!!! James and Grant will set you up with a very unique package!

OP did the right thing.

The James Gang will do right by you and the blade stock. Post pics when they do!

Very cool. Well done.

Larry,

Scott has a great idea to have Behring Made do a re-handle on your knife. It certainly will turn out great whatever you decide "but" I have an offer that might interest you. Lets turn a couple of wrongs into a right. Grant Cunningham at BMK has a piece of my Fossil Walrus Ivory that I'll donate should you wish to turn this into a showstopper. The handle will need to be trimmed down some to fit this blade, let them work out the details. You have other options to deal with them as well.
Grant won't be back until early next week from the Oregon show. You are free to contact him if you want to proceed. It would keep your cost down and you won't be disappointed. This is totally your call and under no obligation. Best wishes.

Thank you W Polidori, for your generous offer. I have always wanted an ivory handled knife and will look into that with BMK.
Larry

This just keeps getter better and better. Warren that's a great thing you've done. Larry -- They can also fix you up with a nice sheath to go with that. Mudbone comes to mind for some reason. ;-)

Kind beyond words, Warren.

Randall Knives Matter!!

Sorry, couldn't resist...

I had a great conversation with Mr Ducati, and the results that this forum is leading to regarding the blade makes me very proud to be a part of the KTF! You guys rock!

Who would have thunk it...Warren; a nice guy afterall...LOL

Hmmm!!! More "Randall Lore"??? Warren steppin up! Bam!!!!!!!

Yeah DW.... I too, was wondering what the alien's had done with the real Warren!!! Double LOL

Warren, that is a crazy generous offer.

Great looking piece of FWI which would make a stunning handle for this knife.

Silver lining indeed.

Good to see you posting agin been a long time. You still have your Bowles collection going?

If I could see a pic of the etching I could probably tell you if shop did it or not...but this is something we wouldn't do today...

Well there have been many responses "but" I'll give ya kudos for the idea DW.
Premise comes down to a new guy who buys what he thinks is a Randall Made knife. He came to this Forum for help.
Way to make things right.

Larry, Just an example of Fossil Walrus Ivory on a #26

Eric, thanks for resizing my photos, don't know how to do that yet.
Beautiful knife, handle material, engraving and all.

You're a good man Warren!

Larry this is what the forums all about.

Tom Flynn

Hello Chief, hope you are well. I have been around I have not done much buying lately, but I still have the whole collection. I have added a few pieces but only if they are very special in context of the embellished Randall's or the work of Leschorn.

James A. Moscatelli

Larry can we please see some good photos of the sheath.
Thanks.

The sheath is apparently made by Byrd, and is slightly too long for this knife. Notice that the "Randall Made Knives" is a light strike. The "Orlando, Fla." and the side diamonds are a deeper punch into the leather. The other sheath is a factory 25-5 from 2002.

Thanks Larry. Yes I would agree without a doubt that this is a sheath made by Floyd Byrd. I hate to see him do this as he makes some fine Sheaths.

En route to BMK!

I received the re-handled Randall in the mail today from Behring Made Knives. Thank you again to Warren for his generous donation of a piece of fossilized walrus ivory. It really made this knife. Through communications with Grant at BMK, me sending him photos of handle shapes, spacer sizes and colors, and ideas of what is practical to do, we agreed on the build. James then ground off the old handle and hilt and built this lovely knife.
My goal was to have a simple design, showing off the quality of the ivory. I thought copper and black in simple even sized spacers, would be be appropriate. I requested a crows beak shaped handle, with a coke bottle swell to the middle of it. They accomplished that perfectly. The guard was to be copper to match the spacers. The shape and size was James' doing, dictated by the handle contour and diameter, and it feels great in hand. It is slightly handle heavy, with the balance point just back of the forefinger. The ivory has a smooth, dense feel to it.
For the sheath I wanted it simple again, no embellishments, fringe, brass, or carving. I requested a high quality black leather Warlander pouch sheath, with copper rivets, to compliment the knife colors. It fits snugly inside, and is stamped on the back with both makers' marks.
I think BMK took a Randall blade that had a dark history, and made it into a one of a kind masterpiece. Thanks to all. What do you think?

Looking sharp. Those Behring boys...

Another James Gang home run. A real beauty. Congrats!!

Pap

Came out awesome Larry. You need to post this in the Rehandled Knives thread in BMK forum.

Larry,

Great new life BMK gave to that knife!

Tom Flynn

That turned out great.

I also appreciate the whole "righting a wrong" process.