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#148050 - 08/15/16 01:29 AM The Original "Bushcraft" Survival Knife *****
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
In the 1970s into the early 1980s is when the "bushcraft" craze began in the UK and spread to the USA, (until then, no true red-blooded American would ever have dared calls woods or forest "the bush"), thanks to SAS former members teaching survival skills classes, and also my namesake SM Lofty Wiseman, SAS coming over here to help stand up our Delta Force, and Lofty himself going on to found a survival school, write the famous SAS survival handbook, market videos, etc.

The tool of the trade was the MOD knife, Ministry Of Defense Jungle/Arctic/Aircrew survival knife, a "finalization (MOD 4)" of earlier designs (such things never finalized, not even the name, and latest versions made quite differently today), which went on to be THE knife as for teaching survival skills across the pond, old photos will almost always show students in the UK, civilian or military, wearing one of these with extra goodies taped to sheath back, and oversized retention strap for extras wrapped around handle.

THE knife where batoning taught as something which later would take over the world as for some sort of ironclad manner of knife evaluation, even if knife never designed for such.

Although the bushcraft crowd now obsessed with ridiculously small knives for survival, THIS knife clearly made to take any ground survival punishment, whether prying/hacking way into or out of aircraft wreckage, jimmying doors/windows/lock hasps, trenching/digging, splitting or cutting trees via batoning or hacking, even to driving nails/pegs/wedges with the flat of the blade. Oversized handle scales and recessed rivets keeping bare hand contact with cold or hot metal to a minimum.

This older earlier 80s model rather neat compared to later, as it appears hot forged. And before anyone chimes in with, "ah, but my earlier Wilkinson Sword is better and prettier and etc," let me point out no matter how marked, only one company, J. Adams, ever made these knives, of the same steel (a superior/cleaner Euro numbered 1095 type at shock resistant 54Rc to 55Rc) and they marked them however/whoever had the contract at that point wanted them marked. This MOD knife may not be the cutter of some earlier, smaller, prettier tries at such a knife, but is far stronger.

Note the unique lengthwise hot rolled blade surface and even the hot rolled primary edge bevel with only minimal grinding. The blade thickness is greatest just above the primary edge where metal displaced by the forging process, and thinner (metric equiv. of 1/4" thick thinner) towards the spine.

Blade also has distal taper towards the front, even as blade depth increases, again, from hotworking, probably rolled thinner/deeper. The unobtrusive, just large enough to keep hand off blade, guard is hard silver soldered top and bottom to radiused tang.

With the convex edge, and max thickness just above edge, wood flies apart when this blade strikes or is struck, and no binding or sticking. Born to hack. An axe edge disguised as a knife.

Although this knife looks new, it was used quite a bit early on, and maintained its finish thanks to an exceptionally tough, smooth, hard parkerize more as what I am accustomed to seeing on an old M1 Garand or M14 receiver, and use was suspended when I realized there were not gonna be anymore like these.

The later knives appear more conventionally and simply ground flat thick barstock, and have dyed black phenolic/micarta handles. They still work just as well, somehow, which is why the change was allowed.

There are numerous import copies of this knife, so make sure if ever shopping for one of these "beauties", to get one with the broad arrow acceptance mark and NATO stock number marked on handle of older knives, and blade of newer knives. Wood will NOT fly apart and the blades WILL stick/wedge with the imports. And know that no matter what maker name on either old marked or new marked version of issue knives, they are made all by one company, and always have been.

One always rides with me in case of emergency.

You want tough, we got tough....it even inspired Ethan Becker early on to explore the concept of "tough" with his Becker Knives and Tools line.















Edited by Lofty (08/16/16 03:51 PM)
_________________________
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ad te autem non appropinquabit.

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#148055 - 08/15/16 07:00 AM Re: The Original "Bushcraft" Survival Knife [Re: Lofty]
desert.snake Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1114
Loc: the other side of the earth
Beautiful camping knife =)

Survival knife, this is what you will find yourself in an emergency and you have to live with this knife,
waiting for help or going to civilization.

The main thing - it is knowledge.

and the knife can be like a Chinese folding knife, and Randall, and Mora or Victorinox or any other))

Everything is new - well forgotten old.
Recall Finland Leukko and European knives 10-15 century ago,
when people actually survived.

This is my 2 cent smile


Attachments
------X century north Europa.jpg


_________________________
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#148057 - 08/15/16 09:06 AM Re: The Original "Bushcraft" Survival Knife [Re: desert.snake]
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
The northern EurAsia natives rarely carried one knife....a large Leuku for breaking down large game, heavy brush, an axe or two, and several size puuko for instance.....even the American and British survival schools pair either a Jet Pilot or MOD knife with a smaller multifunction folder...the current military tries to cut down load, as do civilians.

A typical Chinese folder might be a bad idea given that survival knives must survive as well, for them to do any good.

The MOD was designed to take any punishment, any use, and still survive, while primitive folk had no downed metal aircraft to egress, or locked houses/warehouses in which to break, nor trenching with that one knife, etc. Survival needs have changed somewhat, especially as for military applications.

Another photo with a scale, for, errr....scale. Made to be indestructible, and probably nearly is.



and older versus newer shot, the MOD 17yrs later, just not even the same blade or handle profile, nor any hotworking, but only flat grinding, and truth be told, when it arrived 14-15yrs ago, I was disappointed, expecting a black duplicate of my older one...but still works fine, great, even. Despite the maker mark of JG/Joseph Gleaves (i think), the knife is actually J. Adams make as the small return address label attests.



About 3.5 mins into this rather amusing chap's looong 45 min review of several knives, handmade and factory, he commences actual chopping and splitting tests, then later some notching and carving tests. Interesting as he has a later issue MOD (4th up to bat in chopping tests) vs an Asian (Web-Tex/UK marketed) import copy (3rd in chopping test) which just plain is a total dud compared to the real deal, despite appearing identical. There are many posted video tests expressing disappointment (unsure how many are import copies tested) and immediate mods to the MOD (to point that a nice unmolested older one hard to find) but they are after a different sort of performance, and you can see in this video at what the MOD excels (no suprise except how good it is), and in which it lags a bit (no suprise there, either).....but never is it truly bad at anything, the entire point of the survival knife (and given design, quite suprising).

You will note the finish on the issue knife holds up great for him on his hard used knife, as well, and as he amusingly points out, it is cheaper in the long run to just buy the real thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y8uNuHejy0

Again, for prospective shoppers of these works of "art", know ahead of time that they all are simply ground convex/flat to a rude edge which is then parkerized completely for rust resistance. This knife as shipped barely qualifies as a knife, but still works fine as sheathed for most heavy chores....but if you want carving, plan on finishing the edge.

Also, again, many videos out there on "improving" the knife, mostly with higher convex grinds and complete reprofile. My advice is to just buy another knife if this one does not fit your big bruiser bill. It fits mine just as is, or with minimal touch-up, depending on use. Both of these have rotated in and out of whatever auto/truck for a decade and a half with the youngest, and several decades with the eldest, each rotation lasting 1-2yrs non-stop, freezing winter or 139° interior summer, with only every 6mth or so oil change, needed or not. And still as good as new even though both have been used and tested thoroughly (LOVE that finish on these things!).




Edited by Lofty (08/16/16 10:42 PM)
_________________________
Cadent a latere tuo mille, et decem millia a dextris tuis;
ad te autem non appropinquabit.

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#148216 - 08/16/16 06:47 PM Re: The Original "Bushcraft" Survival Knife [Re: Lofty]
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
Although this should be maybe under folders, this knife pairs to the MOD, as one of two original bushcraft knives.

SM Wiseman, SAS, was of the opinion there was only one folding knife in the world worthy of trust as a bushcraft/survival knife, and people listened. In the 1970s/80s, this knife was immensely popular with the SAS, Royal Marines, and our own troops who frequently needed such.....the knives of Swedish firm, EKA.

Their simple design was revolutionary in using barrel nuts/screws now copied by everyone (but copied by everyone with cool looking, fancier/no-tool-with-me! heads, rather than common sense coin slots) in modern "tactical" knives. The EKA one of those predating that misused "strategic" word.

The ones at that time had black nylon scales with brass barrel nuts (this one has stainless), and some of you might recall them marketed in the USA by the Normark group under some silly names such as Big Swede or Super Swede. The combination tail lock/lanyard ring is sprung immensely strong, and would be near impossible to depress if a mid lock. The blade/handle design one cuttin'sumbee as any hunter here would intuit by looking at its continuous curve, curved blade/handle angle, and high grind....a near clipped puukko design rather than Scandinavian grind, very unusual for a Swede knife, and good, tough, bend-before-it-breaks 57-58 Rc Sandvik stainless razor steel for the blade.

Near always paired with a MOD knife and issue clasp multitool knife. The original folding bushcraft knife, and still about the only folder up to those tasks. Videos of Wiseman are on youtube showing him doing EVERYthing with one.

My German pal demos one in und deutsch video....you can see he is enthused as well, over how well it plain works...and works...and works....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCmPq9rFWBo

A man was well prepared with a MOD, EKA and SAK.







(ps- cannot BELIEVE I posted the photo without the SAK in it, too! getting old! will fix when I return to town.)

Ah...here we go....bushcraft at the old school, where new school is everything that is old, and is new, again.





Edited by Lofty (08/18/16 04:47 PM)
_________________________
Cadent a latere tuo mille, et decem millia a dextris tuis;
ad te autem non appropinquabit.

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#148349 - 08/17/16 07:52 PM Re: The Original "Bushcraft" Survival Knife [Re: Lofty]
Ronnie Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 2255
Loc: NW Mississippi
Lofty I have always liked that Brit knife. I used to see them for sale now and then. I haven't seen one in a while now. Should have bought it when I saw it. They were never very high priced IIRC. Great info.
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RKS#2166

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#148392 - 08/17/16 11:34 PM Re: The Original "Bushcraft" Survival Knife [Re: Ronnie]
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
I always thought they were rather steep for a large slab of relatively soft 1095, but they work, although many griping posts as for disappointment by those expecting a better knife per se...but knife was only a small part of jobs it expected to do.

In looking around, I was suprised by how little advertised for sale now....found zero on ebay, about zero retailers, not even a quick check of Amazon, and found only the Sheffield cutlery group in the UK, and knifeoutlet here who I think order direct from same, advertising them at all.

Just too plain for today's market, or maybe just needs white stencils on the parkerize of mystic runes skull and crossbones on the sides to catch up with all the latest? I sure wish anyone made one as my old one, i would buy it in a heartbeat.

Glad to hear you enjoyed the read. Happy to ramble.


Edited by Lofty (08/17/16 11:35 PM)
_________________________
Cadent a latere tuo mille, et decem millia a dextris tuis;
ad te autem non appropinquabit.

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#148418 - 08/18/16 02:47 PM Re: The Original "Bushcraft" Survival Knife [Re: Lofty]
desert.snake Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1114
Loc: the other side of the earth
By the way, the stigma seems to military acceptance
on handle, no?

Military knives with Serial No. is quite difficult to buy.

I found only 2, same as yours ^^

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291545397936
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291786768791


By design and purpose reminds German Kampfmesser (Kampf=Fighting
, Messer=Knife) put into service in 1968.
http://www.kotte-zeller.de/BW-Kampfmesser.htm?websale8=kotte-zeller-shop&pi=2364&ci=009855

There was an option for the German counterpart Commandos
with reduced hilt (1 pic)

and standart variant with single hilt (2 pic)





Attachments
------post-3-1280857368,9578.jpg

------post-167-1280854919,508_thumb.jpg


_________________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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#148422 - 08/18/16 04:40 PM Re: The Original "Bushcraft" Survival Knife [Re: desert.snake]
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
The MOD knife likely far thicker than der bundeswehr version, 6mm I believe. The wood handled knife you listed (fyi, I had no luck in a search using "MOD knife"), has a totally non-issue appearing sheath.

But the knife is marked J Adams 1993 and NATO stock number on the handle, and knives also supplied without new sheaths, if desired when ordered by units. Blade actually appears of newest style and finish. Wonder if sheath supply ran out, and they just shipped with whatever available, or if military standards slipped so much (lowest priced vendor) that any old sheath will do, as far as the bean counters are concerned.

As for the mystery of old date but new blade style, a little trivia for you.......

Mentioned already the fact Adams made them all. Dates on the knives are not maufacture dates, but date of manufacturing contract, and printed contract would detail duration and numbers of items. The knife might have been made yesterday, but if contract has not expired from 1993 for x-number of knives by such and such date, then Adams will stamp the effective contract date under which the knife was made.

knifeoutlet has them maybe $10 cheaper, both versions. I kinda like the crude black one, as really not even a handle to worry over cracking. And these later wood handled versions are pretty rough looking. Later blade style almost an uber-tanto tip, better stabber than older styles. They have their charms, even these ugly ducklings.

Thanks for the links...debating another for gifting.

PS- Direct answer the question. Blade OR handle will be stamped with NATO stock number, maker name/initials/mark, date of contract, and British "broad arrow"/crowsfoot govt acceptance mark. The wooden handled knife you posted is a contract knife. Not sure about the sheath.

CORRECTION: the wood handled link you posted has an issue sheath, I went to another knife supplier on that page bottom where sheath was not as the issue sheath. My apologies for any confusion, the only confusion going on here is the short circuit between the headsets. And now, driving me crazy, cannot find the link for the issue knife in weird sheath, the toe of sheath was not angled, instead, an even uglier totally square 90° bottom, and only a rivet or two on corner. Even worse looking than the ugly but totally functional issue sheath. There is an issue nylon web camo pattern sheath available, for those who prefer its more durable all weather characteristics.


Edited by Lofty (08/18/16 09:02 PM)
_________________________
Cadent a latere tuo mille, et decem millia a dextris tuis;
ad te autem non appropinquabit.

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#148423 - 08/18/16 05:00 PM Re: The Original "Bushcraft" Survival Knife [Re: Lofty]
desert.snake Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1114
Loc: the other side of the earth
Thank you Lofty, very interesting about stamps smile
_________________________
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#148424 - 08/18/16 05:22 PM Re: The Original "Bushcraft" Survival Knife [Re: desert.snake]
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
Each maker/contractor formerly had a small mark....if you look at the photo, the little diamond is the maker mark.

Impossible to tell without magnification (and sometimes not even then, given how wood grain crushes), but the diamond has a J and A inside it (probably why later changed to more visible mark so they knew which contract run had a problem or whatever), the Jack Adams mark.

I assume the phenolic handles impossible to stamp legibly, so blades are instead stamped on them. Both of the knives you posted are later J Adams marked knives, the wood handled version has JA spelled out completely in large letters, visible even with blurred zoom, would have been impossible with early diamond mark.




I just bought that black one you posted, I remembered that company includes shipping in price, and i DO like the later tip for stabbing, and DID just give my own black one with box to sis just last night while visiting her, for her to stash in her car....as she told mom, when I gave it to her, "i LOVE cool tools!", and i was already missing mine. What is dumb is that I gave it to her while thinking I really do not need two of these MOD knives. And the old wooden one is made far nicer and is a forever keeper back from my days of needing such a knife in the military. But I immediately started missing that sharper deeper grind point on the crude black one, and although the wood has held up fine to temperature extreme abuse for decades, the phenolic is perfect for such abuse,.... but only AFTER i gave it away, did i think about any of this. All I can say is......DUH!

The photo shows maybe what I mean about the tipping on newer styles, anyhow, by way of excuse on buying another one the day after I gave away my last one.......riighht....anyhow, the kind of knife that gives one the urge to stab a car door to death.




Edited by Lofty (08/18/16 06:27 PM)
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ad te autem non appropinquabit.

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