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#121502 - 09/29/14 09:46 PM Re: Ivory Randalls *** [Re: TAH]
Hemingway Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 172
Originally Posted By: TAH
Originally Posted By: Steven
I'm curious to see what Ivory prices do in the future. I predict they will go up in value.


Unfortunately, the intent of the proposed ban is the exact opposite - to make ivory valueless.


They should outlaw cocaine, meth and heroin too. Make them valueless smile

It always cracks me up how politicians don't understand you can't bend the laws of economics any more than you can bend the laws of physics.
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#121503 - 09/29/14 10:01 PM Re: Ivory Randalls [Re: Hemingway]
Chief Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 5413
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
lol now that's funny!! grin
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#121515 - 09/30/14 06:39 AM Re: Ivory Randalls [Re: Chief]
mwschilling Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 50
I'm still of the opinion that if Randall would issue a statement confirming that they ONLY used certified pre-banned ivory, all Randall knives made with ivory would continue to be legally traded. US F&W won't state what form of proof is required but it only takes the bare minimum to get past seller's burden of proof. Then it would be on F&W to refute that the ivory is pre-ban, which they couldn't do without some type of legitimate proof of their own.

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#121518 - 09/30/14 09:07 AM Re: Ivory Randalls [Re: mwschilling]
Hemingway Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 172
Originally Posted By: mwschilling
I'm still of the opinion that if Randall would issue a statement confirming that they ONLY used certified pre-banned ivory, all Randall knives made with ivory would continue to be legally traded. US F&W won't state what form of proof is required but it only takes the bare minimum to get past seller's burden of proof. Then it would be on F&W to refute that the ivory is pre-ban, which they couldn't do without some type of legitimate proof of their own.


I also agree that this would work. Bureaucrats are often satisfied with just a bunch of official papers, stamped, etc. The law has a prebanned clause in it so if you have paperwork that says pre-banned, I think that'd be sufficient.
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#121519 - 09/30/14 09:11 AM Re: Ivory Randalls [Re: mwschilling]
mwschilling Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 50
This morning I changed my mind and decided to sell my certified ivory Randall's. I mostly collect custom knives now and have a show in two weeks.

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#121521 - 09/30/14 09:35 AM Re: Ivory Randalls [Re: mwschilling]
oldguy Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 772
Loc: Yeehaw Junction
I don't think that the RMK operation would want to get involved furnishing statements to or for the Federal Government. If you think they are behind now just wait until they have to deal with the ivory statements and all of the record keeping and examinations of the past records looking for ivory handled knives. There is just too much liability with this idea. But in the end the shop will do what it wants to do that is best for them and getting the government involved in your business is not in anyone's best interest. oldguy
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#121526 - 09/30/14 10:59 AM Re: Ivory Randalls [Re: oldguy]
Hemingway Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 172
Originally Posted By: oldguy
I don't think that the RMK operation would want to get involved furnishing statements to or for the Federal Government. If you think they are behind now just wait until they have to deal with the ivory statements and all of the record keeping and examinations of the past records looking for ivory handled knives. There is just too much liability with this idea. But in the end the shop will do what it wants to do that is best for them and getting the government involved in your business is not in anyone's best interest. oldguy


I see a business opportunity smile

For $50 a knife + shipping, I'll take a look at it and certify that it was pre-ban ivory. I'll get you a nice certificate, a couple of letters quoting the law and how this certificate satisfies the requirements in the law, etc. I'll even have it notarized. Then send everything back to you for safekeeping.

In lieu of cash, I'll take ivory handled Randalls in payment smile
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#121529 - 09/30/14 11:27 AM Re: Ivory Randalls [Re: oldguy]
mwschilling Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 50
Originally Posted By: oldguy
I don't think that the RMK operation would want to get involved furnishing statements to or for the Federal Government. If you think they are behind now just wait until they have to deal with the ivory statements and all of the record keeping and examinations of the past records looking for ivory handled knives. There is just too much liability with this idea. But in the end the shop will do what it wants to do that is best for them and getting the government involved in your business is not in anyone's best interest. oldguy


I don't think I was clear in my suggestion. RMK's would not have to search any records or provide any documents specific to any particular knife. ALL they would have to do is document their PAST POLICY of requiring a certificate of origin with ivory for all orders for ivory handled RMK's. Then anyone with an ivory RMK could obtain a copy of THAT Policy statement, which could be posted on RMK's website for pdf download. If that policy is true, then ALL RMK's with ivory would have documentation that the ivory is "pre-ban" or "pre-convention". It really could be that simple to satisfy the US F&W.
Think about it this way, IF RMK's never made an ivory handled knife that wasn't certified "pre-ban" then ALL RMK's with ivory handled MUST include "pre-ban" ivory. It would then be up to US F&W to prove otherwise (for example if they could show it was re-handled after the fact by someone other than RMK's)or if they could prove it was a fake Randall.

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#121533 - 09/30/14 11:54 AM Re: Ivory Randalls [Re: mwschilling]
oldguy Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 772
Loc: Yeehaw Junction
Originally Posted By: mwschilling
Originally Posted By: oldguy
I don't think that the RMK operation would want to get involved furnishing statements to or for the Federal Government. If you think they are behind now just wait until they have to deal with the ivory statements and all of the record keeping and examinations of the past records looking for ivory handled knives. There is just too much liability with this idea. But in the end the shop will do what it wants to do that is best for them and getting the government involved in your business is not in anyone's best interest. oldguy


I don't think I was clear in my suggestion. RMK's would not have to search any records or provide any documents specific to any particular knife. ALL they would have to do is document their PAST POLICY of requiring a certificate of origin with ivory for all orders for ivory handled RMK's. Then anyone with an ivory RMK could obtain a copy of THAT Policy statement, which could be posted on RMK's website for pdf download. If that policy is true, then ALL RMK's with ivory would have documentation that the ivory is "pre-ban" or "pre-convention". It really could be that simple to satisfy the US F&W.
Think about it this way, IF RMK's never made an ivory handled knife that wasn't certified "pre-ban" then ALL RMK's with ivory handled MUST include "pre-ban" ivory. It would then be up to US F&W to prove otherwise (for example if they could show it was re-handled after the fact by someone other than RMK's)or if they could prove it was a fake Randall.

When the shop quit taking ivory do you think that maybe they did not want to be involved? Why don't you contact GTR and propose your idea directly to him instead of the forum chit chat? Then you will have a answer.
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#121534 - 09/30/14 12:08 PM Re: Ivory Randalls [Re: oldguy]
mwschilling Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 50
I think the request needs to come from someone with existing relationship and more engaged than me. I discussed it with Capt Chris and he is looking into it. my comments were just to clarify.

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