Hey, Guys.
I just found these two Model 1s in an old family chest. They were gifts to an infantry captain and an air corp Lieutenant as they departed for the European theater in WWII (circa 1943). The names of each are etched on the blades. Does anyone know how much they might be worth?

Wow! Sheaths are funky but knives look good. Both are mid war model 1's as you say. Wish the sheaths weren't so bad but still I would guess 2500 to maybe 4000. My price is a little low I think but I would not pay much over that because of the sheaths. That's a great find. Congratulations to you. I may be. Interested in the top knife. Thanks for posting them here.

Wow. I knew they were collector's items, but thought maybe $1000 each tops. I have a few questions then:

1) Is the condition of the knife is more important to a collector than the size of the blade?

2)Is the sheath is more important than the size, as well?

3)I was thinking of maybe keeping one and selling the other. Which knife/sheath combo is the less attractive one to a collector?

First of all cuetek there are others much more qualified than me on giving prices. Most dealers would not give you probably much over your $1000 figure. I've seen some nice War 2 knives, including the sheath in the $4000 to $5000 range. However those usually had provenance that came with them. I think a collector would prefer the longer blade.....most collectors. I'm a collector but I actually like the shorter blade knife. Your problem....IMO will be the sheath condition. The first sheath may clean up a bit but the second can be trashed. Again....IMO. Once a collector buys one they then have to find a replacement sheath. That is extremely difficult to do. I was hoping some of the big time collectors would offer a price. Condition is always very important to a collector.

Condition is important, but DO NOT try and clean them up in any way. Leave them as found.

Pap

Thanks for the info Ronnie. I know the provenance of these two knives, and they are linked in that the were given by my grandfather to my father and uncle and both carried in the European theater in combat. Essentially, I inherited both knives at different points, whereupon they were stored in an old army foot locker at my mother's house. But what kind of documentation is necessary to deliver that provenance to a collector?

As to the larger knife's sheath, would it not be even trivially more attractive to have the sheath restored rather than present it without a sheath? Would the pair be more attractive presented together rather than separately? The more I handle them, the more I like them though. I was cleaning up the blades and realized how tough the metal is. Both have amazingly sharp edges and are extremely slow to polish even with a Dremel tool and rouge.

This could be very bad news.......


Cleaning them will greatly reduce their value to vintage collectors. At most a light wipe down and a coating of rust inhibitor.

The knives match the sheathes..... and should stay that way.

Leave them alone.... just my 2 cents.

Cleaning up the blades and how tough the metal is?

Sounds as though you just f***ed yourself good. Nobody, and repeat nobody wants those knives "cleaned up". A dremel tool? Are you kidding me?

To this day I have still not understood why guys feel compelled to "fix" things that aren't broken.

Oh well, two more historical pieces lost to the home workshop.

I don't think I've affected the metal of the blades. The picture you see above is how they look now (ie after cleaning). I asked a local knife maker what to use and he said rouge in that it will not change the metal only the tarnish. All he warned me about was being careful not to contact the brass. The Dremel tool had just a cloth wheel, not a hard attachment.

Also, the knives I've seen in pictures have the brass looking bright. Should I not clean the brass? How about the leather on the hafts? They are dusty looking compared to pictures in here and elsewhere, especially the shorter blade model. Again the pics I've seen of other knives show the handles to be darker and cleaner looking than these two. Do I leave them alone? How about the one intact sheath? Ronnie said it could be "cleaned up a bit." What does that entail? Should I not touch it?

Do whatever you want the damage is done.

Well, heck, I'll just keep them. I don't need the money, and they're still Randall Made Model 1s, and they're still the same blades my father and uncle carried to war. Thanks for the tips, everybody.

Cuetek, I think they are awesome!!!

If I were in your same shoes, I wouldn't take $100k for both of them. The family history that those things possess would be invaluable to me.

It's not like they are costing you anything. Put them away, use them occasionally to make more memories with, and pass them down.

To me, value isn't always measured in dollars. A few thousand dollars is nothing compared to decades of family history and memories.

EDIT: I also don't think you did anything wrong with the rouge. I'd clean them up, carry them and use them all the time, myself. I don't really let potential future collector's preferences dictate what I do with my stuff. It's more important how I feel about them compared to how some stranger might feel about them down the road. But, that's just me. I hope when it comes time for me to hand down my Randalls, they are VERY, VERY worn--like worn OUT.

I'm envious of what you've got! They really are awesome.

Cuetek--

The preferences of RMK collectors seem to always lean toward leaving vintage knives in their "found" condition--especially if you want to sell it to someone else.

When you try to sell a knife, of course the potential buyer will try to use any observed "problems" with the as-found condition as a bargaining point to try and get it at a lower price. This bargaining process varies depending on the individual buyer and just how competitive the market might be for whatever you are offering for sale. It is a process that goes on in any buy-and-sell field.

However, as others have noted here, it is generally OK to put something on the knife and its components to simply protect it from the elements. There are varying opinions on how to best "preserve" the blade, the leather on the handle, and the sheaths. Note I used the work "preserve" and not the word "restore."

I have collected antique Sheffield knives for some time. I knew one collector, now deceased, who would sit at club meetings and auctions with his polishing cloth and a stick of rouge rubbing away like mad on the genuinely age-tarnished blades that were maybe 100 to 150 years old--and he pretended that he could attain the unachievable and put a polish on the blades that came anywhere near the appearance of what the Sheffield craftsmen had put on them originally. Nor could he eliminate any of the natural pitting that might have been in the blades--other than by removing enough metal from the blade to bring the surface down to the bottom of the deepest pits. All he succeeded in doing was to put a "Kentucky shine" on knives that I would not then buy from him or trade anything to get them back if he had gotten them from me in some transaction.

However, long-winded as this has become--whether you want to keep these knives for yourself and perhaps your progeny, or you want to sell them, you can get good advice from Tunefink and others if you are able to let them see the knives in person.

These are nice "finds" (I say "finds" because you had them all along), and they do have provenance via the etched names and the family tree.

Enjoy.

Larry

"Father and Uncle carried to(& back from) war..........just keep them myself".
Best decision you could possibly make.....would never consider anything else!

We are only temporary caretakers of these knives. Keep them and try to imagine the stories they could tell.

If you found them at a garage sale, that would be one thing in my mind. In this case Your Grandfather gave the knives to your dad and your uncle and they were carried in the war.

Why would you even think about selling them? Unless cash was hard to come by due to a family emergency.

Your little tune-up with the rouge and the dremel tool will probably go away in a period of time and then the next family member will never know the difference in 20 years. Or a knife expert.

Point is the knives are far more valuable to your family than you really realize. They are items carried by a family member in war.

Tom Vaught

Cuetek yes having even the ruff sheaths is a good thing. I'm just a picky collector and appreciate the sheaths as much as the blades....almost. As for the dremel tool.....I have to agree with crutch and tunefink.....please don't do that. I didn't realize these belonged to your dad and uncle.....if they were mine, you couldn't buy them with a million bucks. As for the provenance a couple of photos of your dad and uncle in the ETO wearing these knives would be perfect! Good luck with these knives. You are a very lucky man.

Unfortunately Tom, it never goes away. You cannot recapture the original grind lines or shop final polish/finish from the period, nor the original 70 year old patina.

Once it is "cleaned" by mechanical means, it is altered forever.

Cuetek,

If they were mine, I would leave them as they are....even if you have cleaned them some. While the collector (to a$$es like Crutchtip and me) value is diminished by cleaning they are not lost. We both have bought cleaned knives.... but the best is finding a untouched time capsule.

You have something I will never have. A WW2 Randall with family connections. I know how much I treasure the knives that have been left to me.... Randall or Imperial, they are all priceless.

In the 2nd RKCC newsletter there are some tips on leather preservation....check it out.

Best of luck.

Cuetek you have been given some good info but let me make myself perfectly clear (like Obama) Mitchell and Joe, tunefink and crutchtip respectively are not a$$es......well not really a$$es.....well sort of not a$$es.....well most of the time not a$$es.....I've known that a$$ Joe for a long time and well he can be an a$$ but only occasionally. Mitchell was just kidding. I've never known him to be an.....well there was that one time......ok, ok....there a$$es.

I see some resemblance to Zakarias in the...longer blade..do you?

Absolutely Guido. It is I would think an earlier knife than the short bladed mod. 1.

Not really. This knife is by the time it was made the "Model 1". Most of the things you might associate with a Zacharias style fighter had been modified and somewhat standardized and that is what you have in these knives.

It didn't take Bo long, a matter of months, to reach this point with most of the one off or experimental" stuff done by very early 1943.

Here a couple that are more closely associated with the Zacharias fighter.

LOVE those old leather finger grips!!!!

That a$$ showed me up again!

You know what....by golly Guido, it does have a resemblance to a Zacharias. Sorry Joe it does have a zach look to it.

I stay with Ronnie..!
Supernice stuff anyway..!

Thanks for that info, Joe, now I know.

Thought the hilt was designed for a blade up for a Zacharias.
(Long Hilt guard down)

Tom Vaught