You have GOT to be my age or close to it, i graduated HS circa '78, spent mucho tiempo en Panama, El Salvador y Grenada, drier climes in recent times and i sure hope you are slowing down....after i went to doc about bones in knees grating and hurting a wee bit and him explaining i was wearing cartilage out faster than it grew back, and that was '92, i pretty much was done humping a 75-100lb combat load....down south was where i got into the habit of soaking leather goods in beeswax to keep them from rotting, and i am almost suprised to see you still have that original handle, even kabars rotted and they have treated leather compressed much more....did the sheath make it too?...i WILL be suprised if you say yes to that as well....if nothing done to it, anyhow....don't know about you, but i liked waxed leather as i discovered down there that apparently sweat and grime soaked cordura from several weeks in the field is some sort of delicacy to local insect life, as well as my body....a great knife with some yarns to go with it, and hope they are good....i just painted any rustables i carried, but i was carrying more mundane things than Randalls back then, stupid me, but a wife and three kids at home kept Randall off the menu....

I had another question as well, which is how did the exposed tang at pommel nut fare compared to blade?....better?...worse?....about the same?....corrosion is a big problem on our airchines, and i would have about bet a #1 pulling constant duty in tropics would have a problem there from steel/aluminum/moisture dissimilar metal corrosion (think steel sheetmetal screws in aluminum camper shell), but Randalls continue to defy common wisdom every time i look into things.

There seems to be a bit of unwarranted consternation about the durability of RMK supplied sheaths in the field. Rest assured, there are plenty of extant examples from WWII that served in the both the European and Pacific theaters that remain in good serviciable condition. Same for Korea and Viet Nam.

While waxing a sheath can greatly reduce the chance of "rotting", it is not necessary and was originally used for the #16 to combat the ravages of extended saltwater immersion.

Generally most have put a typical leather treatment that is more than sufficient relative to the longevity of the sheath in service and beyond, and there are better treatments currently available than were in the past. A little maintenance can go a long way for a user.

I would caution though on treating vintage sheaths at all. Many have the misconception that every sheath acquired needs some type of treatment. In many cases, it can reduce the collectibility and value on a knife/sheath.

Not everything requires an "aftermarket" upgrade.

As many issue knives as i saw die in the field, as many older knives as you can see in any listing of old issue knives, and those knives and sheaths were treated to resist rot, and them having tattered rotted sheaths, and chunks of handle missing, you cannot simply put it off on poor maintenance...and Randalls are no different...and i imagine quite a few Randalls died in the field too and are non-extant, having personal experience in what amphibious operations and jungle heat and humidity does to gear...if it were simply a matter of maintenance, everyone would still be using a kabar and the SEALS would be using a leather sheath....since Korea and beyond, knives such as the 14/15/16 are used more for a reason, and stainless so popular as soon as available, and today, Kydex for sheaths....as Vickers accurately stated on this very forum, sheaths are like tires on a car...
http://www.knifetalkforums.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=7431&Number=78764#Post78764

Lance -

Since you seem to enjoy the debate more than most, I will bite on this one.



I don't believe anyone is questioning the validity of waxing a sheath or using some other form of treatment. What I was stating is a waxed sheath is not necessary to have a useful long lived sheath. Most of the knives you reference are factory made mass produced items (i.e. MK1's, MK11', M3's, etc.) that are obviously not up to par with a hand made Randall, whether it be in the 1940's on Tarawa, or 2012 in A'stan.



I believe this is where your disconnnect lies.




I have no doubt either, but the attrition rate relative to the mass produced items you compare them to is substantially less seeing the same service, and I attribute that to the quality of the knife.



Experience aside, Kabar's are cheap, Randall's are not, and Kydex or similar type materials are a step forward (if you will) in durability is some circumstances, no argument there. I think it is readily apparent to most readers that the majority of gear is and has been moving to synthetic materials for quite some time. Leather, cotton, linen, etc., are not the first choice for many if not most applications, and again, it is hard to march against technology. In the end though, your comaprison is not wholly valid, as some say we should still be using the Garand. I will still take leather, and if I deem waxing is necessary, so be it.



The full tang knives are great pieces for sure, but so is a #1, #2, #3, and so on. It depends on the users preference. I have always been a proponent of SS primarily because it requires less care than tool steel. Otherwise, tool steel is more than adequate, particualry if you are a gear queer and really stay on top of your kit.

We don't know what type of maintenance or protection Vicker's gave to his sheaths, if any. While his statement about leather sheaths being expendable is somewhat accurate, it doesn't have to be so. A little maintenance or treatment can go a long way. Didn't I say that before?

recreation and sustained combat operations are two different things....this is not a spit shined garrison environment when in the field, and items you mention as all ones needs often just aren't there...i'll not argue any further with you and this is the second time on this board you have lit into me out of the blue...my impression was this was a Randall forum and not The Argument Room...my questions were addressed to a certain individual and not you....go live on a beach for two weeks and swim with your Randall on every day, and run out of CLP at day 3, and get back with me on how easy they are to care for....meanwhile, i look forward to hearing how his knife and sheath fared....

I am fully aware of what you describe. No need to get hostile. It seems as though you carry some pent up anger.

I was only saying that you were making blanket statements as to the durability of a RMK supplied sheath that are in part untrue, and also to the lack of durability of a leather handled RMK that is inaccurate to say the least. If you have a preference for another material, that is cool, but to denigrate leather as some grossly inferior material is disingenuous.

FYI, CLP blows and if you are on a "sustained combat operation", you better have enough of a good lubricant for your M4 to keep it running. So by de facto, you would have a bit for your knife if needed.

Oh, I do live on a beach and have swam with a Randall for years. Let me repeat that, years. No lo problemo.

Here is my sheath that I purchased with the knife new on July 1st 1986. You can still make out the writing on the back. The last time this knife went overseas I used a Spec Ops sheath. I like the leather better then the new stuff even if its better. "OLD DOG" There is plenty of time between operations to refit your kit if needed. It's not gonna win any contest but is still serviceable.

Well there ya go, barely broken in, and it isn't even waxed!

Captain...
Here is my oldest Model #8-4"..7 spacer with the 'Low S' blade stamp, and my newest Model #8-4"...which turned out to be somewhat of a disappointment...I wanted a wrist thong and a compass on the Orange G10 handle...only to find out during the build that the shop will not add a wrist thing or a compass to G10 material.

Thanks for showing the sheath....i prefer leather as well....and have a SpecOps gathering dust....also don't care for plastic liners getting grit stuck in interiors and eventually sanding off even the toughest modern finishes....that really is a great knife, and priceless...nice drain hole....i add those as well...