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#187596 - 05/13/20 01:10 PM Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination?
crutchtip Offline
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The following photos and text were done elsewhere, but I thought it was of interest to Randall folks. I have my thoughts but looking for comments,discussion:

"Anyone know if this can be repaired? I was wearing my knife because we have snakes and thorns on our property and this one little limb needed to be taken down. I made about 15 whacks on it and was about to pull it down when I saw what had happened to the blade. I was in shock!!!"


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#187597 - 05/13/20 01:17 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
pappy19 Offline
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A knife isn't a hatchet. If he had a Model 19-5 ,he could have used the back side as a hatchet and no problem.

Pap
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#187598 - 05/13/20 01:24 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: pappy19]
LarryWW1246 Offline
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Defer to the shop.

If the user sends it back, they will evaluate it and honor it.

Larry
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#187599 - 05/13/20 01:52 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: LarryWW1246]
crutchtip Offline
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Originally Posted By: LarryWW1246
Defer to the shop.

If the user sends it back, they will evaluate it and honor it.

Larry


You are correct larry, is should be sent to the shop, but, when you say "honor it", are you taking the position the knife is faulty?
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#187600 - 05/13/20 02:23 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
LarryWW1246 Offline
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I think the shop will stand behind the knife as part of their quality control, assuming they could verify what was done with it.

We have had other examples pop up on the Forum where the owner posted stuff without going back to the shop with their issues, and the shop stood behind at least one that I can recall.

I have my suspicion as to what happened with this blade, but instead of stirring the pot maybe let the shop do what they are best positioned to do--assuming they can get the knife back for evaluation.

Larry

P.S.: Can anyone explain why the guy wanted to chop off that branch?


Edited by LarryWW1246 (05/13/20 02:25 PM)
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#187601 - 05/13/20 03:42 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: LarryWW1246]
Leatherman Offline
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Its faulty for sure, it happens to the best of makers.

I have had knives chip out like that and I have had (it was a hatchet by a well respected maker) fold like butter.

One instance of damage that is pure accidental and perhaps an act of god so to speak is edge/bevel miss alignment. This is most likely caused by imperfections in the wood like a knot that has an extreme hardness or tougher section that causes some of the edge to follow the wood grain and become bent to the side slightly.

I have had this happen on a large Busse and a Randall 6"

The actual cutting edge is not damaged in this instance but the blade looks like it has a kink or bend on the lowest half inch. The only problem comes later when attempting to sharpen a blade with this slight edge kink.
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#187602 - 05/13/20 03:50 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: LarryWW1246]
Eric Offline
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15 whacks...he probably worked up a sweat......oak is hard. Old apple tree is worse. He needs a #14. Even then it is at your own risk being a Bubba.
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#187603 - 05/13/20 04:03 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Eric]
Ronnie Offline
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Agree with Eric. If you have to chop use a big Randall not a hunting or camping knife.
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#187607 - 05/13/20 05:01 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Leatherman]
crutchtip Offline
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Originally Posted By: Leatherman
Its faulty for sure, it happens to the best of makers.

I have had knives chip out like that and I have had (it was a hatchet by a well respected maker) fold like butter.

One instance of damage that is pure accidental and perhaps an act of god so to speak is edge/bevel miss alignment. This is most likely caused by imperfections in the wood like a knot that has an extreme hardness or tougher section that causes some of the edge to follow the wood grain and become bent to the side slightly.

I have had this happen on a large Busse and a Randall 6"

The actual cutting edge is not damaged in this instance but the blade looks like it has a kink or bend on the lowest half inch. The only problem comes later when attempting to sharpen a blade with this slight edge kink.


Ben - this is kinda an answer I was looking for. How can you, me, or anyone else determine the blade is faulty by a photograph?

The fact the guy took a light weight tall bevel skinning knife and hit the knot of the branch coming out of the tree 15 times couldn't create that type of failure in a "non faulty" blade?

This is kinda what concerned me when I read this elsewhere, is that 75% of the respondents completely discounted what the owner used the knife for, 100% contrary to what RMK states in their catalog.

No one took into account that it was a lightweight skinning knife.

All makers can let a bad one slip out the door, but are you gonna take your Prius 4 wheeling?
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#187608 - 05/13/20 05:13 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
Wally Offline
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Definitely not the proper tool for the job, but I wouldn't be suprised if RMK replaces it, just because that's the kind of folks they are.
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#187609 - 05/13/20 05:30 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Wally]
Windsor Offline
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I can see it going either way.

You ever watch an axe head coming off of the tree when an experienced lumberjack is making chips? Nearly all of them give the handle a twist to help free it up better.

If he similarly twisted it coming up out of a green oak limb, he could have very well caused it to flake off when it's otherwise a flawless knife.
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#187610 - 05/13/20 05:43 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Wally]
Chief Offline
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I don't care what your doing, 15 tries with any tool, means you have the wrong tool.
I have a jeep that I can pull stuff with, if I trash the tranny by pulling more weight than it is rated you don't call the jeep defective!!!
As for "this one little limb needed to be taken down" you could do pull-ups on that limb!
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#187612 - 05/13/20 05:52 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Wally]
Captain Chris Stanaback Offline
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I have no idea what this guy did or how he did it..."BUT"...why post it on social media before you get answers from the shop? One "possible" explanation, in my mind's eye, was the "chopping" was successful but the knife "possibly" got stuck, as things do, in the crotch of that limb and the chips "popped-out" when the customer twisted it, back and forth, to get it "un-wedged"!
Either way: Not the tool I would have used but let's see what the final outcome will be.
Best, Capt. Chris
PS: I accused "nothing" and used the words "possible" as well as "possibly" in my post...Just sayin', CCS
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#187613 - 05/13/20 07:22 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Captain Chris Stanaback]
Michael_Mason Offline
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Originally Posted By: Captain Chris Stanaback
I have no idea what this guy did or how he did it..."BUT"...why post it on social media before you get answers from the shop?

Poor knife’s already been put through the mill on Facebook, seems to be the new wave of doing things these days mad
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#187614 - 05/13/20 07:26 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Captain Chris Stanaback]
Buck Buchanan Offline
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I am with Chris & Michael on this. It must be the new social media platform that allows such carrying on as was in this post on Facebook.

There was a feller there carrying on with Joe, and calling him out and swearing to beat the band at Joe. It almost comes out in the "scuffle of words" and remarks as "entertainment", like watchin' a Jerry Springer Show.

Then, there's the folks who take the "Lifetime Guarantee" to mean anything goes in taking the knife and beatin' the crap out of it, taking it to the limit of breakage. Folks on the sideline are advising to send it back for a full replacement. Ludicrous.

One feller was even making derogatory remarks about Randall using "cruddy 01 steel". He remarked all the reasons for picking the wrong steel instead of steels with at least five numbers and letters

The owner did contact the Shop (I am continually correcting folks there on Facebook about the "Randall Factory"). He would have been better off to wait for the Shop to make a judgement call before asking the folks in the peanut gallery to pass judgement on "thumbs up or thumbs down".

Do I detect a lacking sense of immaturity or manners on Facebook? In the words of the former Governor of Alaska, "You betcha!"


Edited by Buck Buchanan (05/13/20 07:30 PM)
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#187615 - 05/13/20 07:41 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Buck Buchanan]
Windsor Offline
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Yeah, I saw the post on PotatoBook before I saw it here. I declined to participate or even give it a good read.

Sounds like it turned into the dumbfest that one would expect.
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#187616 - 05/13/20 07:44 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Buck Buchanan]
crutchtip Offline
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Originally Posted By: Buck Buchanan

Do I detect a lacking sense of immaturity or manners on Facebook? In the words of the former Governor of Alaska, "You betcha!"


Perhaps one of the truest questions/statements I have read in a very long time.
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#187617 - 05/13/20 07:53 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
tunefink Offline
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I don't think this or any other forum can hold up the "superior" card when it comes to pissing contests. There have been many here.......

The Facebook group has 40-50 fold the active members as here. You are likely to have more opinions.
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#187618 - 05/13/20 08:37 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: tunefink]
Leatherman Offline
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While I totally agree that he used the wrong tool for the job, unless he attached a cheater bar on the handle and got some serious leverage... it's just a heat treatment mishap.

Randall has really good customer service, he will un undoubtedly have a new blade soon.
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#187621 - 05/13/20 08:56 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Leatherman]
LarryWW1246 Offline
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Leatherman--

My thinking, now that more info has come out, is that this particular blade does have a thin grind. Ideal for slicing.

It might be that it was not tempered back to spec, but since it is thin I for one would not expect it to be used as a heavy-duty chopper--and especially with any twisting action. Somebody mentioned choosing the right tool for the job. A saw would have done the limb cutting nicely.

RMK might want it back so they can ask the owner how he used it, and see the damage to evaluate the heat treat.

I think somebody, maybe in passing, told me that RMK can put a heavier bevel on a blade if a user lets them know they want it. Not to encourage a run on the shop, just saying from memory.

You guys have noticed the tendency in modern electronic media to say things that would not be said and to say them in ways they would not be said if the individuals were within fist-throwing range of one another. It can be a lot easier to make enemies in this medium than friends!

Larry
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#187622 - 05/13/20 09:00 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Leatherman]
crutchtip Offline
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I don't know how you can make that determination from a photo. This is what I am looking for someone to explain to me.

That particular grind has a very thin bevel to the edge. You get it buried in something and apply the right amount of pressure and torque the blade, and wa la.

Not to mention, again, the 15 strikes with that thin edge.

I can only imagine how hard he was striking with that very light knife, the momentum the blade had to get it to even penetrate the branch to any degree. It is apparent that if he had to strike 15 times and probably half way thru if lucky, something wasn't going as he inexplicably thought it would. Perhaps he just swung it harder and harder until it chipped.
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#187626 - 05/13/20 09:42 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
tunefink Offline
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Originally Posted By: crutchtip
I can only imagine


I think this is true for everyone that has shared an opinion on this situation. The owner has contacted the shop. They will adjudicate.
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#187628 - 05/13/20 09:58 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: tunefink]
crutchtip Offline
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If you were a betting man ...............
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#187629 - 05/13/20 10:39 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
Sharpi Offline
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Some things are not meant to be wacked!!
Some things are made for wacking!
Maybe slicing and cutting are better knife use?
Some things are better sawn
I don't do wacking often but when I do I use a Fireman
I'm sure the shop will be more than fair
Sharpi

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#187630 - 05/14/20 12:14 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Sharpi]
pappy19 Offline
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I plead Forest Gump.

Pap
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#187631 - 05/14/20 02:21 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: pappy19]
Duke Offline
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There are many $14.99 made in China machetes that one can go to the woods and use to wack & thrash all day. This appears to be a significant case of gomerism.
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#187634 - 05/14/20 05:26 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Duke]
desert.snake Offline
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This dude needs to have a folding saw.
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#187636 - 05/14/20 06:27 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
rigid54 Offline
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Originally Posted By: crutchtip
If you were a betting man ...............



I’d put money on; the shop says “sorry about your loss”.
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#187639 - 05/14/20 07:36 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: rigid54]
Sphinx3000 Offline
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Originally Posted By: rigid54
Originally Posted By: crutchtip
If you were a betting man ...............



I’d put money on; the shop says “sorry about your loss”.


Just like with the people who got scammed by Rick Ward you mean?

If the shop is smart and want to stay in business for the following decades, they will give him and others in similar situations a new knife. That is called standing behind your product, even if the knife
is not 100 % treated the way it should. But he wasn't trying to lift a car with it or something similar. If you give him a new knife you have a customer who will spread the word, that Randall stands behind their products!

The world is changing (especially with the gigantic recession that is awaiting us) we have young people at the moment who buy new knives (also expensive ones) and many of them have never heard of Randall Made Knives. Let's hope they learn about Randall by reading great stories about the knives and the way the company does business.
Otherwise I see the popularity of Randall and along with that the prices, coming down big time in the future. Not good for us collectors!

The internet is an unforgiving place as some of you may know.
You don't want to many of these negative stories popping up when somebody uses a search engine on Google or on one of the other forums.

Even if the knife was misused in the eyes of most experienced knife people and Randall staff, it wasn't a destruction test. Randalls have a reputation of being the best and that they are using the best materials.

It even says so on the Randall site. That could also be a reason that people think, that a knife with such a reputation can take (in their eyes) a relative normal task for some knife types of chopping of a tree limb. Not everything is done with bad intentions.

Give the guy a new knife and you have a happy customer. Refuse him and you will probably have many more of these topics started by a frustrated customer, who probably will bring the subject of Randall quality and customer service up a lot more in the future. By not doing so, Randall is in my opinion Penny wise and pound foolish.




Edited by Sphinx3000 (05/14/20 02:16 PM)
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#187641 - 05/14/20 07:58 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: tunefink]
crutchtip Offline
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Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2840
Originally Posted By: Sharpi
Some things are not meant to be wacked!!
Some things are made for wacking!

Sharpi


Not certain how to take take that!


Originally Posted By: tunefink
I don't think this or any other forum can hold up the "superior" card when it comes to pissing contests. There have been many here.......

The Facebook group has 40-50 fold the active members as here. You are likely to have more opinions.



With far more of the members there having absolutely no clue about Randall Knives, or cutlery in general. Case in point is the guy that dinged up his knife, the subject of this thread.
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#187642 - 05/14/20 08:16 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Sphinx3000]
crutchtip Offline
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Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2840
Originally Posted By: Sphinx3000
Originally Posted By: rigid54
Originally Posted By: crutchtip
If you were a betting man ...............



I’d put money on; the shop says “sorry about your loss”.


Just like with the people who got scammed by Rick Ward you mean?

If the shop is smart and want to stay in business for the following decades, they will give him and others in similar situations a new knife. That is called standing behind your product, even if the knife
is not 100 % treated the way it should. But he wasn't trying to lift a car with it or something similar. If you give him a new knife you have a customer who will spread the word, that Randall stands behind there products!

The world is changing (especially with the gigantic recession that is awaiting us) we have young people at the moment who buy new knives (also expensive ones) and many of them have never heard of Randall Made Knives. Let's hope they learn about Randall by reading great stories about the knives and the way the company does business.
Otherwise I see the popularity of Randall and along with that the prices, coming down big time in the future. Not good for us collectors!

The internet is an unforgiving place as some of you may know.
You don't want to many of these negative stories popping up when somebody uses a searche engine on Google or on one of the other forums.

Even if the knife was misused in the eyes of most experienced knife people and Randall staff, it wasn't a destruction test. Randalls have a reputation of being the best and that they are using the best materials.

It even says so on the Randall site. That could also be a reason that people think, that a knife with such a reputation can take (in their eyes) a relative normal task for some knife types of chopping of a tree limb. Not everything is done with bad intentions.

Give the guy a new knife and you have a happy customer, refuse him and you will probably have many more of these topics started by a frustrated customer, who probably will bring the subject of Randall quality and customer service up a lot more in the future. By not doing so, Randall is in my opinion Penny wise but Dollar stupid.




Apples and oranges bringing Rick Ward into the equation. That being said, the following is quoted from the Randall catalog. I think it pretty much sums it up, and actually describes the situation at hand. This is not the first time some nimrod as f**ked up a knife in this fashion.

"Before it leaves our shop, the cutting edge of every Randall Made™ knife is carefully honed by hand, ready to use for its intended purpose. However, the bevel and edge of a knife designed for cutting skin and flesh are much different from those used to hack bone or other hard materials.

Using a fine hunting knife for an axe will naturally damage its cutting edge. And pounding, prying, or throwing a knife not designed for these purposes is likely to damage it
."

After reading this from the catalog, it is difficult for me to understand how any intellectually honest person can assign fault on RMK, whether the temper, heat treat, or whatever other term all the metallurgists, machinists, knife makers, et. al. coming out of the woodwork want to use, was substandard being the reason this slight hunting knife failed as a hatchet.
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#187643 - 05/14/20 08:38 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
Sphinx3000 Offline
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Loc: The Netherlands
"Apples and oranges bringing Rick Ward into the equation."

I see similarities. In that case the shop also didn't offer much help, did they? In my opinion that is also short sighted
and failing customer service! I would have expected more from Randall. Or let them issue a warning that they are not responsible for there AUTHORIZED dealers.

I agree that using the knife in this way isn't smart but you will always have those kind of customers. The question is in my opinion, should Randall see a once in a while broken knife and replacing it, as the price of doing business and keeping a good name as a company, that delivers great customer service, or want to save a few dollars by not offering a replacement knife...




Edited by Sphinx3000 (05/14/20 02:18 PM)
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#187645 - 05/14/20 10:11 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Sphinx3000]
crutchtip Offline
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Posts: 2840
You are completely discounting what I posted from their catalog. Right there in black and white it tells you NOT to do what he did. So this clown goes ahead and does it, and somehow Randall Made is supposed to accommodate this nimrod? I simply don't understand this logic.

Do you know how many calls they get because a knife isn't sharp enough. The spacers look like the wrong color. My stag isn't dark enough. The stamp on the blade isn't perfect. I could go on and on and on.

So to expect them to honor a warranty for something they explicitly state not to do is baffling.

If your automobile is designed to run on and requires you to use 93 Octane gasoline and it is clearly stated in the owner's manual, but you use 89 Octane gasoline and the car runs like shit, is it the auto maker's fault? Good luck with that.
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#187647 - 05/14/20 10:40 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
Sphinx3000 Offline
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Posts: 426
Loc: The Netherlands
I get what you are saying and mostly agree, but it would be great for the name of the brand, to help even these kind of customers. I assume a knife breaking/chipping doesn't happen every day. Try to see it as advertising. Like RCBS, they are well known for their customer service and that is why people stay loyal to the brand.


Edited by Sphinx3000 (05/14/20 01:57 PM)
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#187648 - 05/14/20 11:32 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Sphinx3000]
crutchtip Offline
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Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2840
yes, a kumbaya moment would be nice, but if you think this is the first guy to misuse a blade, think again.

Should RMK, simply to be "good guys", honor a warranty on one of their products for every moron that uses one of their products in a fashion it wasn't designed for, and blatatnly flies in the face of the published user's guide that identifies proper use? All this compounded by the fact he goes on facebook and acts stupid like "What did I do wrong??", This shouldn't happen!", basically creating an avenue for all the armchair metallurgists, machinists, and such (never knew so many existed) to chime in with the "expertise", prior to even contacting the company for advice on how to proceed.

Let me post this a second time:

"Before it leaves our shop, the cutting edge of every Randall Made™ knife is carefully honed by hand, ready to use for its intended purpose. However, the bevel and edge of a knife designed for cutting skin and flesh are much different from those used to hack bone or other hard materials.

Using a fine hunting knife for an axe will naturally damage its cutting edge. And pounding, prying, or throwing a knife not designed for these purposes is likely to damage it
."
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#187649 - 05/14/20 12:32 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
Captain Chris Stanaback Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 12675
Loc: Central Florida
Not everyone reads the fine print...or "any" of the print for that matter. My only bitch about this is going to social media with it "FIRST"! I've got my own battle going on with a (now former) customer which has been taken to the computer, in fact to several sources, prior to coming to me. "THAT" kinda shit I "JUST DON'T GET"!!
I would also argue this guy loses a lot of his argument by going "social" 1st. We shall see...but I'm not calling him a Moron...just yet.
Best, Capt. Chris


Edited by Captain Chris Stanaback (05/14/20 12:32 PM)
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#187650 - 05/14/20 01:02 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Captain Chris Stanaback]
Eric Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/18/15
Posts: 1668
Loc: Michigan
Capt, Chris, Anyone with a gripe with you is just wrong, no “but” in this sentence.
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#187651 - 05/14/20 01:16 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Eric]
CrazyCajun Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2040
Loc: Central Florida
My Grandpa Joe who was in the auto industry in Michigan used to say.. " If ya can keep 80% of the people Happy 80% of the time ... You're doing a Helluva Job"!

Also... even from 13 + with the Walt Disney Company... Not ALL customers are always right. Sometimes... Ya gotta let them walk!
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#187652 - 05/14/20 01:20 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Eric]
rigid54 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 106
Loc: NC, USA
Actually Capt., as you well know, the “Certification & Guarantee” is highlighted in yellow, in the catalog.

That being said; I stand by my statement. I believe the only honorable response from the “Shop” would be to stand by their written word.
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#187654 - 05/14/20 01:27 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: rigid54]
crutchtip Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2840
The pertinent line from the referenced guarantee:

"We warrant that each Randall Made life is free from defects in manufacture and will be replaced should any appear, when in use by original owner"

This begs the question, where and/or what is the defect?
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#187659 - 05/14/20 05:01 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
Chief Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 5413
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
The picture says it all, I mean did anyone else think that a limb that size should be "chopped" with a knife.
I would be willing to bet that if he wouldn't have broken the blade his arm would have given out before he cut through!
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#187661 - 05/14/20 06:01 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Chief]
Leatherman Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 1371
Loc: IL
What makes me wonder is how many other knives were in the same heat treatment batch.
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#187662 - 05/14/20 06:17 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Leatherman]
Dirty_Water Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 2255
Loc: central fl.
Can anybody out there please translate this in a language Ben would understand? Evidently English is not good for him...

"Before it leaves our shop, the cutting edge of every Randall Made™ knife is carefully honed by hand, ready to use for its intended purpose. However, the bevel and edge of a knife designed for cutting skin and flesh are much different from those used to hack bone or other hard materials.

Using a fine hunting knife for an axe will naturally damage its cutting edge. And pounding, prying, or throwing a knife not designed for these purposes is likely to damage it."
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Scott
RKS #014

HE IS RISEN!, HE IS RISEN INDEED!

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#187664 - 05/14/20 08:06 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Dirty_Water]
BOB_TEATES Online
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 1027
Loc: BRADENTON FL
I don't understand why my straight razor chipped when I tried to chop down a stop sign
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RKS #5138 RKCC #CM-015

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#187665 - 05/14/20 08:13 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: BOB_TEATES]
pappy19 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 7371
Loc: Garden Valley, Idaho
Originally Posted By: BOB_TEATES
I don't understand why my straight razor chipped when I tried to chop down a stop sign


That's good. Lol.

Pap
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#187666 - 05/14/20 08:14 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: BOB_TEATES]
Peter_Kaufman Online
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 2582
Loc: Southeast Utah
Another voice heard from, as a mechanical engineer, I know a bit about metals.
First it looks like there are two separate places where the knife edge chipped, perhaps the user might have stopped chopping after it chipped the first time.

A knife is made for cutting, an axe for chopping, two distinct operations which require different edge geometries, heat treats and hardness. To use one for the purpose it is not designed for will give less than optimum results.

My two cents

Peter
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#187669 - 05/14/20 08:34 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Wally]
Tom Vaught Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 574
Loc: Michigan
Maybe he watched a bunch of Rambo movies at one point in his life.

Question: If you ran into a cotton-mouth snake in the woods, what are you going to do with this knife? Pin the head with a stick and cut the snake's head off?

You would be a busy guy, and would kill a lot of snakes minding their own business, if you decided to kill each one with your Randall Knife that you saw.

Tom V.



Edited by Tom Vaught (05/14/20 08:35 PM)
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#187670 - 05/14/20 09:22 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Tom Vaught]
Chief Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 5413
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Tom V. Now that's funny!
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#187671 - 05/14/20 09:22 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Dirty_Water]
Leatherman Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 1371
Loc: IL
Love you too Scott...

Originally Posted By: Dirty_Water
Can anybody out there please translate this in a language Ben would understand? Evidently English is not good for him...

"Before it leaves our shop, the cutting edge of every Randall Made™ knife is carefully honed by hand, ready to use for its intended purpose. However, the bevel and edge of a knife designed for cutting skin and flesh are much different from those used to hack bone or other hard materials.

Using a fine hunting knife for an axe will naturally damage its cutting edge. And pounding, prying, or throwing a knife not designed for these purposes is likely to damage it."
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Ben

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#187672 - 05/14/20 09:32 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Tom Vaught]
crutchtip Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2840
Originally Posted By: Tom Vaught
Maybe he watched a bunch of Rambo movies at one point in his life.

Question: If you ran into a cotton-mouth snake in the woods, what are you going to do with this knife? Pin the head with a stick and cut the snake's head off?

You would be a busy guy, and would kill a lot of snakes minding their own business, if you decided to kill each one with your Randall Knife that you saw.

Tom V.



Ya, I didn't get into the fact that this guy is apparently a snake wrangler to boot! Most likely in the vein of Steve Irwin (RIP) without a doubt.
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#187674 - 05/15/20 02:04 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Buck Buchanan]
Wally Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 2444
Originally Posted By: Buck Buchanan


The owner did contact the Shop (I am continually correcting folks there on Facebook about the "Randall Factory"). He would have been better off to wait for the Shop to make a judgement call before asking the folks in the peanut gallery to pass judgement on "thumbs up or thumbs down".


Attachments
------Screenshot_20200515-015738_Facebook.jpg


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#187675 - 05/15/20 04:13 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Wally]
Sphinx3000 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/17
Posts: 426
Loc: The Netherlands
I love Randall but technically it is a factory...
Now don't get mad, please read the definition of both words in the dictionary.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/factory

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/shop


Edited by Sphinx3000 (05/15/20 04:14 AM)
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#187676 - 05/15/20 04:16 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Sphinx3000]
Sphinx3000 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/17
Posts: 426
Loc: The Netherlands
So can we all agree to stop calling the Randall factory a shop?

Thanks!


Edited by Sphinx3000 (05/15/20 04:20 AM)
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#187677 - 05/15/20 04:29 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Sphinx3000]
Sphinx3000 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/17
Posts: 426
Loc: The Netherlands
Just kidding about the factory part, but please read this article about marketing. This is what I meant, when I said that giving a new knife to this customer could be seen as a form of advertising.

The average company spends a lot on advertising!

https://yourbusiness.azcentral.com/much-money-average-company-spend-advertising-6766.html


Edited by Sphinx3000 (05/15/20 04:51 AM)
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#187678 - 05/15/20 05:43 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Sphinx3000]
Dirty_Water Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 2255
Loc: central fl.
I think these two definitions describe RMK better...

A factory is a building where workers use machines to make things for sale. It usually means a building where companies use mass production to make different things. Many of the same thing are made in a short amount of time.

We're kind if a throwback to old times because that's the way Bo, Gary, and now Michael and Jason continue to insist we continue to... "not fix what's not broken"

Beginning with the Industrial Revolution era, a workshop may be a room, rooms or building which provides both the area and tools that may be required for the manufacture or repair of manufactured goods. Workshops were the only places of production until the advent of industrialization and the development of larger factories. In the 20th and 21st century, many Western homes contain a workshop in the garage, basement, or an external shed. Home workshops typically contain a workbench, hand tools, power tools and other hardware. Along with their practical applications for repair goods or do small manufacturing runs, workshops are used to tinker and make prototypes
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RKS #014

HE IS RISEN!, HE IS RISEN INDEED!

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#187679 - 05/15/20 06:13 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Dirty_Water]
Sphinx3000 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/17
Posts: 426
Loc: The Netherlands
We're kind if a throwback to old times because that's the way Bo, Gary, and now Michael and Jason continue to insist we continue to... "not fix what's not broken"

I couldn't agree more!
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#187680 - 05/15/20 06:52 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
Michael_Mason Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 1926
Loc: Orlando, FL.
Originally Posted By: crutchtip
I have my thoughts but looking for comments,discussion:

CHAIN SAW
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#187681 - 05/15/20 07:37 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Sphinx3000]
crutchtip Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2840
Originally Posted By: Sphinx3000
....please read this article about marketing. This is what I meant, when I said that giving a new knife to this customer could be seen as a form of advertising.

The average company spends a lot on advertising!


I don' know that RMK needs a lesson in marketing, with a 5-6 year wait, but hey, what do I know. I don't believe RMK is "the average company", and is somewhat unique and as afaik, they do very little advertising. If my memory serves me, the only print add I recall seeing for many decades was the small running add in Blade Magazine.

I mentioned this previously and I don't want to rehash, but in this instance, for the sake of clarity, do you think this is the first guy to f**k up a knife by misuse?

I can only guess at your reasoning (beyond the "marketing" angle) is because of the nature of how this went down on fb and all the negative hoopla that went on. I am helping you out here, cuz the "marketing" angle is a loser.

I look at it that if in fact the knife proves to have been in proper condition when it left the shop in both metallurgy and assembly, and prepared to be used as it was designed to be used, replacing the knife for a person that admittedly misused the knife is simply rewarding a poor decision by that individual.
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#187682 - 05/15/20 08:16 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
Sphinx3000 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/17
Posts: 426
Loc: The Netherlands
"I don' know that RMK needs a lesson in marketing, with a 5-6 year wait, but hey, what do I know."

I THINK a part of the waiting list is based on people who think the ordered knife will be worth more in 5 years. Of course there are also a lot of people who don't know of the existence of dealers. Or they like to order knives on special dates, like their birthday or something.

Meanwhile I see a few dealer sites at this moment with a lot of Randall's for sale.

It wouldn't be good for the price, if by example Randall would double it's production at this moment. The market could get flushed, especially in this time of crisis. Trickling the knives in to the market and keeping them a little exclusive, is what makes people want them even more. Nothing wrong with that and it is a good market strategy (assuming it is one?). It has indeed worked for many years. And by having a back-order list, you never have to hire or fire people when sales go up or down.

But times are changing and since the average age of the Randall collector is 101 laugh you can't only rely on results from the past.

I don't know how many requests Randall gets from people who abused there knives and ask for a replacement, but I can't imagine it being that many. What I meant with marketing strategy is, that having a name as a company with great customer service in itself is great advertising. With the internet one happy or unhappy costumer can have a much greater effect as in days past.


Edited by Sphinx3000 (05/15/20 08:19 AM)
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#187683 - 05/15/20 08:58 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Sphinx3000]
crutchtip Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2840
If you are depending on ordering and acquiring a Randall knife as part of your retirement portfolio, you may want to get a different financial advisor.

That being said, folks order knives for a myriad of reasons.

The reason RMK has a wait is very simple. That have limited production capabilities for a couple of reasons, the most important being to maintain the quality Bo Randall wanted to deliver starting in 1937. That may be the most important "marketing" strategy of all.

The shop historically doesn't "hire and fire" people as say might a fast food restaurant. Historically, folks have made careers out of becoming a cutler working for the company. In other words, there isn't a lot of turnover. It is more of a problem finding folks that are trainable and willing to work that hard.

There aren't too many folks claiming "poor heat treatment", and I haven't called to ask, but I am sure there have been a few, and some may have been legitimate. Ultimately, you would hope that a person that buys a knife would know what they are buying if for, and if to use, would have the common sense to use the knife for that purpose, the reason they chose that specific model in the first place.

All becomes moot when you take a thin bevel skinning knife and use it as a hatchet.
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#187684 - 05/15/20 09:46 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
Sphinx3000 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/17
Posts: 426
Loc: The Netherlands
"The shop historically doesn't "hire and fire" people as say might a fast food restaurant. Historically, folks have made careers out of becoming a cutler working for the company. In other words, there isn't a lot of turnover. It is more of a problem finding folks that are trainable and willing to work that hard."

That is a good policy, would be great if more companies operate that way.

Buying Randalls as an investment is probably not the best idea, but you would be a lot better of then having stocks at the moment, lol

I just buy them because I like them and the history behind them, nothing more or less. If the prices would go down, I would buy even more.

I again THINK that if Randall wanted to, they could hire more staff, If NASA can get astronauts, Randall can get good employees. But I guess they prefer it this way and they probably have good reasons for doing so. Anyway, I hope they stay in business for another 80 years or more!
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#187685 - 05/15/20 09:54 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: crutchtip]
LarryWW1246 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 1730
Crutch—

I think we can all agree that the guy who broke his knife wanted to get attention from strangers…by going online with it without first having had an exchange with the shop.

If he did then go back to the shop as I think was mentioned in one of these posts, and after a fair exchange with them, did he get reasonable treatment given the circumstance?

That is all anybody could ask.

Remember the old warranty that Sears offered on their Craftsman tools? If you found a broken one laying in the gutter and took it in to them, they replaced it without question. And LL Bean…one example being the descendants of a man taking a 1940’s sleeping bag in and got it exchanged?

Who the heck can make and sell any product with a forever replacement warranty and stay in business? Especially since the maker has no control over how people actually use their products. Lots of us “make mistakes” or simply abuse the products we buy, and beyond some reasonable expectation of quality we have to accept responsibility for how we treat our property.

Note that Sears is now out of business (not merely due to its Craftsman warranty), and Bean no longer offers a “forever without question” replacement policy.

Did the man with the knife go back on the site and post info about his exchange with RMK? That would be a way he could man up and accept responsibility for how he used the knife and share his experience from dealing with the shop.

Larry
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#187686 - 05/15/20 12:03 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: LarryWW1246]
BOB_TEATES Online
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 1027
Loc: BRADENTON FL
I managed a "Bake shop" for Publix for 38 years and never once referred to it as a "Bake Factory" however I did refer to cookies as "bakies" since we were Bakers and not cooks. My Brother had a gun shop not a gun factory


Edited by BOB_TEATES (05/15/20 12:12 PM)
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#187691 - 05/15/20 08:23 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: BOB_TEATES]
Captain Chris Stanaback Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 12675
Loc: Central Florida
I'm enjoying this thread, to some extent. I take exception to RMK's not being a good retirement strategy or investment. Name one thing that has:
* Never gone down in value
* Keeps up (even +) with inflation
* Has been made, in an American shop, with American/same family ownership, making an American product for many decades.
* Sold "BRISKLY" even through all the shit we're going through right now!
My point: Everyone remembers Sept 11th, 2001. Who could forget it. On that morning. if you had taken $250.00 in cash, $250.00 of IBM stock and a $250.00 RMK Model #1 and put them in 3 shoe boxes and put them under your bed...what would you have today?
* $250.00 in cash in 1 box
* $167.50 (equivalent) in IBM stock
* $440.00 RMK #1...that you could sell, in an armadillo heartbeat for that or more! (& Uncle Sam wouldn't know anything about it)!
Sounds like one rock-solid investment to me!
Stay sharp, Capt. Chris
PS: Unless, of course, you took the Model #1 out and chipped the dog shit out of it hackin' on a limb...CCS
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#187693 - 05/15/20 11:56 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Captain Chris Stanaback]
spark42 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 752
Loc: Kentucky
Thanks Capt.
With all the cr*p going on today. You can put a smile on my face.

Dennis
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#187696 - 05/16/20 12:54 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Captain Chris Stanaback]
rigid54 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 106
Loc: NC, USA
Originally Posted By: Captain Chris Stanaback
I'm enjoying this thread, to some extent. I take exception to RMK's not being a good retirement strategy or investment. Name one thing that has:
* Never gone down in value
* Keeps up (even +) with inflation
* Has been made, in an American shop, with American/same family ownership, making an American product for many decades.
* Sold "BRISKLY" even through all the shit we're going through right now!
My point: Everyone remembers Sept 11th, 2001. Who could forget it. On that morning. if you had taken $250.00 in cash, $250.00 of IBM stock and a $250.00 RMK Model #1 and put them in 3 shoe boxes and put them under your bed...what would you have today?
* $250.00 in cash in 1 box
* $167.50 (equivalent) in IBM stock
* $440.00 RMK #1...that you could sell, in an armadillo heartbeat for that or more! (& Uncle Sam wouldn't know anything about it)!
Sounds like one rock-solid investment to me!
Stay sharp, Capt. Chris
PS: Unless, of course, you took the Model #1 out and chipped the dog shit out of it hackin' on a limb...CCS


So I was told by a wise man, too long ago.
Amen brother!
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#187698 - 05/16/20 02:32 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: rigid54]
Doug74 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 616
Loc: NE
I guess it depends on what stock you purchased.......what if we crunch the numbers based on $250 worth of Apple stock purchased back in 2001?
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#187699 - 05/16/20 03:45 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Doug74]
Chief Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 5413
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
His statement was on retirement investments & used IBM was a reference, as a lot of people invest in stocks for retirement.
I see it as hobby that most of us enjoy that in the end, IF You Collect, when you sell you will make money on them.
Although the people in it are hard to understand.......I have never spent time following a forum that I have very little good to say about what the forum is about.
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If you put off following The LORD just remember......They don't serve breakfast in hell!

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#187700 - 05/16/20 07:32 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Chief]
Windsor Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 1868
Loc: Texas!
I buy RMKs to compensate for wasting money on computer and phone junk. wink
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#187701 - 05/16/20 07:39 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Chief]
LarryWW1246 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 1730
We know we can't use all the knives or whatever that we collect. We collect because we are interested and find the items appealing. And we usually stay in an area of collecting where we find interesting and friendly people who are honest.

I know I have left some areas where I got tired of interpersonal nonsense and strife and dishonesty. Glad to walk away from them.

As for alternative uses of the money, I can list places where I could have made lots more money than in my collecting, but that is hindsight...it was not foresight. For every Apple or Microsoft, there were hundreds of similar companies that were being hyped that no one remembers since they went belly up! At the time, it was a matter of luck to choose Apple or MSFT instead of an eventual loser, and to hold onto them through bad times.

As for IBM, the CEO of a company I had under subcontract had been a VP at IBM...and he constantly moaned about how much he had lost on IBM stock. I tried to tell him he might live long enough to recoup his money...but I don't think he did.

But...I still have RMKs I was buying at the time!

Larry
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#187707 - 05/17/20 12:03 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: LarryWW1246]
pappy19 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 7371
Loc: Garden Valley, Idaho
Ask your children or grandchildren if they would rather have a couple of shares of stock or a Randall knife. I know what my bunch would say,and it ain't stocks.

Pap
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Mike Allen
RKCC-CM-086
True West Magazine Maniac
Randall Collector
Behring Made Collector
Ruana Collector
Glock Fan
NRA- Life Member since 1975
mikenlu99@aol.com

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#187713 - 05/17/20 11:05 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: LarryWW1246]
BladesNBarrels Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 1357
Loc: East Tincup General Store,Colo...
This thread reminded me of a quotation:

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.”
– Ralph Waldo Emerson
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David Loomis
RKS# 724
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#187724 - 05/18/20 10:00 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: BladesNBarrels]
TonyLaPetri Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 6852
Loc: Glen Head NY
DIVERSIFY!

Stocks. Bonds. Mostly a combo of both via Mutual Funds.

And ...

RANDALL KNIVES!

grin

Seriously, I started buying Randall Knives, in the early 1980s,
because I love 'em. I have several that I've used, many more
that are Safe Queens. I'm pretty sure they all have increased
in value ... that's icing on the cake.

And Hey! ... When I cross over to the other side, you'll all have
a chance to buy my Randall Knives, and make my dear Wife a little richer!

smile
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Tony LaPetri
RKS#1885
RKCC CM-022

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#187727 - 05/18/20 12:57 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: TonyLaPetri]
LarryWW1246 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 1730
Good going Tony!

Might as well do something we enjoy...knives or whatever...and not just digits on computers in the cloud!

Did you hear the Fed Chairman saying there is no limit to what they can do--meaning no limit to the creation of electronic money stored away and transacted without adding any creation of goods or services?

That should help to ensure that real thing like RMKs will have greater value in the future.

Happy Monday.
Larry
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Larry W. Williams
RKCC #CM-041
ABKA #046
RKS #1246

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#187728 - 05/18/20 04:18 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: LarryWW1246]
TonyLaPetri Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 6852
Loc: Glen Head NY
Absolutely Larry!

Tony
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Tony LaPetri
RKS#1885
RKCC CM-022

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#187755 - 05/19/20 11:49 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: TonyLaPetri]
Leatherman Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 1371
Loc: IL
I know Randall's will always command a nice value. I don't own any ivory or Vietnam era but I enjoy them nonetheless!

I need to get a 5-6 made with a supplied micarta...
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Ben

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#189074 - 07/18/20 05:26 AM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Leatherman]
desert.snake Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1111
Loc: the other side of the earth
I have a friend, he works as a flaw detector, I told him about this story, he immediately offered to make an examination, it looks like this picture - the product must be cleaned, then it is poured with a special agent and placed in a magnetic field - all microcracks and similar traces will be visible under ultraviolet light, including those that are in the thickness of the metal and are not visible from the outside.

Here is an example of what it looks like on a steel shaft that has been hardened and then finely grinding after hardening. cracks are either a problem with improper hardening or improper cooling during the last grinding (no coolant)




Today I talked with a friend again, it turned out to be magnetic particle inspection - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpgcD5k1494


there is also an interesting ultrasonic method, but I have not used this yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM6XKvXWVFA


IMHO If on sergeant are no traces of these hidden defects in the fracture region, then this may be too hard metal with a thin thickness, i.e. fragile in itself, if hardness is within normal limits for O1 - 55-59 HRC **, then this is a clear abuse of instrument smile

I conducted such an examination of my Randall 10-5(7) [[ I bought it as 10-5, but then it turned out that it was broken off 10-7 and then re-sharpened]], no defects, unfortunately we did not take a photo at that moment, 53-54 HRC, great knife, I use it constantly.


**
I don't remember what numbers were given for the Randalls, these figures are what my friend uses in his work with this steel for knives, i.e. it can be hardened up to 65 HRC, but this is only used in industrial equipment, where the load vectors are accurate and calculated for a specific structure, if you make such a knife for a person, it will most likely quickly break, unless it's a thin chef's knife that is used carefully.
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#189089 - 07/18/20 03:45 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: desert.snake]
Kirko Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/13
Posts: 449
Loc: Ladue,Missouri
If I worked for Randall and had to make a determination on it. It was used improperly , if the guy whined about customer service , I'd tell him we don't pay people to be customers and my first obligation is to Randall Knives.

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#189092 - 07/19/20 01:19 PM Re: Abuse, faulty blade, or a combination? [Re: Kirko]
crutchtip Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2840
after all the noise, the guy never sent it in
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