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#168834 - 02/16/18 11:26 PM Remington Arms Bankruptcy
W Polidori Online
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Loc: Central New York
I hope this is not the start of the domino fall. Only 2 years ago Remington was #1 in our region in metalworking manufacturing.
Others like Colt, Ruger, S&W continue to lay off hundreds; all of which are close to my company and an important target industry.
Only one surviving right now is Sig due to the military contract.
All industries go through ebbs and flows but this one might sting a while.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/201...aker/332888002/
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#168838 - 02/17/18 12:22 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: W Polidori]
pappy19 Online
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Their 700 trigger issue didn't help, but word is, their high up management is p- poor.

Pap
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#168840 - 02/17/18 12:38 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: pappy19]
W Polidori Online
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In the middle of the 700 trigger issue, Remington was surfing a sales curl that hadn't been seen in recent history.
Not only Rem now but every competitor in the industry is down everywhere. Starting to have devastating employment effects.
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#168841 - 02/17/18 01:00 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: W Polidori]
Lofty Offline
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Well, I am buying brands that are admired and trusted, and who continue to improve, rather than cheapen, products.

Which leaves me helping to keep open who?

Suprisingly, Colt, still has done little cheapening and has even reversed course on some moves.

Whereas, most of the others continue to VASTLY cheapen how products made (look at even Ruger .22s, their original gun has ceased to exist).

And am not even going to list the others who also sell only exterior vaguely original product shaped objects, done to increase profit margins even when in an already unparalleled boom market, quick profit taking at expense of buyer.

Buyers now have scads of their cheap toys with casting sprue innards and plywood stocks and plastic shells.

No true lasting quality calls, and how many disposable guns are folk gonna buy, having no belief their new gun will even be working for rest of their lifetime, much less, that of children or grandchildren?

As for Remington...moving in on struggling Marlin, telling them no problem, jobs and factory safe, within the year taking away one assembler buiding each gun, taking away benches and stools and instituting Six Sigma driven cell concepts, half a dozen workers at a table, standing entire shift, passing partially assembled guns to next guy, no bathroom break unless worker arranged his own relief at the table, a rifle every 30 secs or supervisors forced to send home with no pay, or fire, those judged too slow by metrics, ....and then the unannounced closure, packing, and workers with decades offered fast food wages if they relocated to Illion, while Remington was busy improving the machined forgings Marlin by converting to cast and MIM, and sold rifles for YEARS that did not even work.

And them in trouble a suprise, after already butchering their own iconic 870 to the point Mossberg looked like real quality to buyers and they dumped Remington in droves to make Mossberg the number 1 selling shotgun?


Edited by Lofty (02/17/18 01:22 AM)
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#168843 - 02/17/18 01:30 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: Lofty]
W Polidori Online
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I'm not going to debate specifics, just stating fact as original post. My intention was to bring information as fact to an industry that I not only care about but affects my company's bottom line. Not only our's but many.
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#168848 - 02/17/18 02:06 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: W Polidori]
Lofty Offline
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I totally agree it is a tragedy, especially for workers who do only as directed, but nothing I can do here, as it is totally self induced by the folk who run it. I love Remington 870s and Marlin lever action rifles, and when I want one, I go buy one. An older one where it actually is that gun and not a malfunctioning cheaply made copy of the sort we formerly associated with fraudulent imports. They cut their own throats, and a lot of others, too, but neither did I ever see organized resistance to what was happening. When you let it happen, this is what happens, and everybody has done exactly that industry wide, and everybody associated with same, to include workers and buyer and suppliers.


Edited by Lofty (02/17/18 02:07 AM)
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#168849 - 02/17/18 02:15 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: Lofty]
W Polidori Online
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Registered: 02/09/16
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Loc: Central New York
Bottom line. Remington is not going away. This is a legal step to keep the company fluid.
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#168850 - 02/17/18 02:31 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: W Polidori]
Lofty Offline
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yep, and business as usual. Very common. But the misplaced focus on bottom lines and company names as only a flag around which money gathers or flees, rather than product and people, dooms it. Maybe not this time, but....and will anybody try to do anything? No. And one day it will not resurrect. And that WILL hurt. And talking specifics rather than ignoring status quo until pain happens seems a better course. Meanwhile, best to all concerned.
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#168851 - 02/17/18 02:40 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: Lofty]
W Polidori Online
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Registered: 02/09/16
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Loc: Central New York
Entitled to opinion, we continue to say thank you for your orders .

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#168857 - 02/17/18 09:22 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: W Polidori]
Byrdguy Offline
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Registered: 09/20/05
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Loc: FL Panhandle
I think that during the Obama years, gun (and accessory) sales were so high that gun enthusiasts now have all the guns, ammo and goodies that they think they will ever need. Now people aren't buying much and that hurts all the manufacturers and suppliers in the industry. Just my opinion.
That being said, I'm going to try and do my part by going to a gun show today here locally and see if there is anything that I can't live without.
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#168861 - 02/17/18 11:12 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: Byrdguy]
Wayne Dengler Offline
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Remington,a few years ago had been purchased by a conglomerate which has basically run it into the ground.
Reminds me of back in the early 70s when the Leisure Group took over High Standard,Outers and Sierra bullets. Fortunately Outers and Sierra got out from under them before they imploded.

Back in '64,AMF took over Harley-Davidson and we know where that went. By '79 H-D was pretty much gone but fortunately the employees resurrected H-D from oblivion.

Most of the CEOs of these big conglomerates have no idea of what they make and only see the bottom line. If it doesn't look too good,they dump it and could care less about what happens.

To them,it is just money.

Wayne
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#168865 - 02/17/18 11:59 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: Wayne Dengler]
Lofty Offline
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AND THE PEOPLE SHALL SAY, AMEN....investor groups who oust anybody not bringing them a portfolio increase, and care not about product or people.

Thing that gripes me is, just as said earlier as to everybody acting shocked, they should not be, as history is clear, and yet, as with the weather, everybody complains, but nobody does anything, and unlike the weather, it need not be this way.

#1 responsibility goes to consumers and media lap dogs saying "oh, it has to be this way, or poor (fill in blank) would not be around anymore". Poor (fill in blank) ceased to be the day they stopped making what made them them a legend, folks, so stop buying garbage, and vote with wallet. Even investor groups listen to THAT vote.

And of course, nobody tied to whatever industry speaks up, or organizes a resistance (well, rarely, but there HAVE been successful employee buy-outs), so AMF/BANGOR PUNTA/etc etc just keeps happening....Freedom/Cerebus only the latest.

Late PS- yes, many folk bought guns not normally bought, as they were not normally gun buyers in the first place, and bought only to buy IN CERTAIN AREAS where fear was high of being unable to buy later, due to new laws.

This ignores the vast majority of repeat buyers, in guns, just as in knives, and THOSE are the core staying away, because they know what they are getting is not what it used to be. And when they complain, they are told, "sorry, the modern market etc etc, and it simply MUST be this way if (fill in blank) is to survive." So, they vote with their dollars, makers sales founder, until somebody, somewhere, gives them what they want. Look only at the skyrocketing Mossberg and Henry sales, and every one of those was a Remington/Marlin/Winchester buyer before that.

One has only to look at prices of older better made guns in the used market, to see the market is thriving. Except in ever cheaper new guns. This is not a blip, it is a revolt of core market of repeat buyers taking their money elsewhere, to get what they want....QUALITY.


Edited by Lofty (02/17/18 06:33 PM)
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#168899 - 02/18/18 08:49 AM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: Lofty]
Wayne Dengler Offline
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I guess you pretty much summed that up quite well.

I remember when,back in the early 70s,Bangor Punta owned S&W and basically said that only police & military should have guns. There was a huge consumer revolt that really hurt S&W.

Then they got back on their feet and in 2000 signed a "deal with the devil" the Clinton/HUD deal that basically almost did them in ...again.

Wayne
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#168927 - 02/18/18 08:17 PM Re: Remington Arms Bankruptcy [Re: Wayne Dengler]
Lofty Offline
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sigh....it was Santayana who said that those who refused to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

This, as a very off topic aside, actually cuts entire across western culture. A quick study shows that thanks to the acceleration of technology, we have condensed 1000yrs of Roman empire history into 200yrs, and are currently at the self absorbed decadent citizen phase depending on professional army and import labor, demanding their state supported sustenance and entertainment, while enemies abroad grow in power.

Businesses may wake up....citizens may wake up. May.....Could.
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