James Behring Knives Clinton Knives
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#161473 - 06/16/17 05:39 PM Re: Two New Camp Knives- Suomi Style.... [Re: Windsor]
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
Well, since most antler sheaths oversized, decoratively branched, and I have no use for art knives since I use them, and likely the birch lined leather wrapped sheath lighter, and just as safe against splitting through, and perhaps safer since antler only pinned at bottom, plus, I plain like leather, it'll do for now.

The fancy stuff I only admire in photos or museums, then I go home and use my stuff to compensate. Seems to work, most times.


Edited by Lofty (06/16/17 05:41 PM)
_________________________
Cadent a latere tuo mille, et decem millia a dextris tuis;
ad te autem non appropinquabit.

Top
#161476 - 06/16/17 06:50 PM Re: Two New Camp Knives- Suomi Style.... [Re: Lofty]
JE6245 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 1064
Loc: Tallahassee FL
Fortunately, artistry is not inconsistent with craftsmanship and utility as demonsrated by those knives. Thanks for the posts Lofty, they are educational and enjoyable. Would love to be able to get my hands on one of those Pasi knives.
_________________________
Jim E.

“If you don’t know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.” – Yogi Berra

Me 2020

Top
#161477 - 06/16/17 07:06 PM Re: Two New Camp Knives- Suomi Style.... [Re: JE6245]
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
I love craftsmanship. Even useless craftsmanship. Great metal joining is rare. This is the sloppy side.





Edited by Lofty (06/16/17 07:14 PM)
_________________________
Cadent a latere tuo mille, et decem millia a dextris tuis;
ad te autem non appropinquabit.

Top
#161485 - 06/17/17 04:06 AM Re: Two New Camp Knives- Suomi Style.... [Re: Lofty]
desert.snake Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1111
Loc: the other side of the earth
Lovely work, thank you!

After all I read, I myself wanted to try Leuku in work,
so I ordered one. The truth is not from the master,
but the semi-factory made, firm Roselli.


Edited by desert.snake (06/17/17 07:49 AM)
_________________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Top
#161488 - 06/17/17 09:34 AM Re: Two New Camp Knives- Suomi Style.... [Re: desert.snake]
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
I have only seen Strömeng of Norway as for factory, they vary in thickness of 0.110"-0.117 depending on length/style. If the factory Roselli does not please, such as too much vibration from too thin, you might look at the other. But, for all I know, the Roselli is heavier. Heavy has its cost, but vibration at impact is not one of them, and why I went the handmade.

PS-just checked Roselli thickness, and it is comparable to Pasi's, so should have no buzz from that knife, and Ragnar quoted a similar sheathed weight of nearly 1lb. And, if steel is same as other knives from his shop, it would be tough Krupp W75 at good hardness of upper 50s Rc.

If I have a complaint as to many modern versions of leuku, it would be loss of rhomboid to blade, and loss of point of tip. They make fine modern camp tools, but have lost some of the multipurpose aspects such as large hunting/butchering knife, or ability to do finer carving. However, if butchering elk/moose/reindeer not on the camp menu, and not building traps and shelters, does anyone really care?


Edited by Lofty (06/17/17 11:31 AM)
_________________________
Cadent a latere tuo mille, et decem millia a dextris tuis;
ad te autem non appropinquabit.

Top
#161492 - 06/17/17 04:56 PM Re: Two New Camp Knives- Suomi Style.... [Re: Lofty]
desert.snake Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1111
Loc: the other side of the earth
Leuku, if I'm not mistaken, was never made with a sharp tip and a rhomboid section.

Unfortunately, I do not understand a bit about the thickness of the knife and the vibrations. My English is still bad.
Too thin a knife is as bad as too thick, although it depends on the destination.
_________________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Top
#161496 - 06/17/17 09:10 PM Re: Two New Camp Knives- Suomi Style.... [Re: desert.snake]
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
It would almost require a rhomboid, as when edge forged, the tip is forced up, thinning the spine pushes it back down, or visa versa. And many old ones had sharp tips, for piercing hide, making snares/traps. Sharp point or tip is a relative term, Pasi states leuku do not have a sharp point, but his idea of a sharp point is relative to standard puukko or even dagger.

Whether you hammer edge or spine first, one compensates for the other. Note blade drooped where edge not yet hammered in. This also why many older and some newer have a slight drop to tip or even hump in back, as the edge is not hammered out near so much, nor parallel to spine out front.


This is a knife used across a vast area by nomads, and there would be marked regional differences, such as thinner knives where trees sparse and spindly, while further south in forests with larger trees and denser woods, more strength would be required.

A leuku could be counted upon to be only knife at times, and for butchering or hunting, it would need features for those tasks. A true multipurpose butchering/shelter-building/hunting/trapping/rough-carver/etc knife, and I had read of one Suomi carving a right nice spoon with his, simply to show it could be done.

But also keep in mind that for over 100yrs, factories and shops in that part of the world have been busy corrupting and selling the romance of the leuku for buyers, the same as happened to the bowie knife in the west. And nomads in near arctic wastes did not set up forges, they traveled south to buy/trade, and specify what was wanted. But as smithies faded and factory/shop knives bloomed, one took what one could get, while tourists and city folk bought anything called a leuku.

These are comments by smiths who talked to folk who used the leuku traditionally. You might find this man's comments and photographed leuku he made to his traditional specifications of interest, him living the traditional Sami lifestyle for half of life. Very much same profile as Pasi uses. Have read of others calling the blade cross section "cat's cheeks" when talking old style, and lamenting many new ones lack them, and even worse, cheap stainless tourista leuku.
https://nordiskaknivar.wordpress.com/2012/10/14/leuku-part-one/


Edited by Lofty (06/18/17 01:16 PM)
_________________________
Cadent a latere tuo mille, et decem millia a dextris tuis;
ad te autem non appropinquabit.

Top
#161499 - 06/17/17 09:20 PM Re: Two New Camp Knives- Suomi Style.... [Re: Lofty]
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
As for vibration, you would not enjoy the leuku buzzing like an angry bee when you hit something really solid, and stinging the hand.

A heftier blade with decent grind will bite deeper and gradually halt, relatively speaking.....likewise, a thick blade with poor blunt edge would also not be a pleasure. But heavier bites deeper in general, everything else being equal.

Back to the rhomboid, I have read puukko theories that it developed from using old files, and that shape simply copied. I do not buy it because it would be extra work to no real purpose.

Personally, think it came about to save work. The centerline of blade not hammered out as much, and mainly kept blade fairly straight with minimum of forging. And advantages discovered such as centerline strength, mass maintained above edge, but less drag or wedging in cuts and chops, more manueverable in deeper cuts and more complex slicing/carving. The rhomboid on a leuku is slight, but it is there. However, most folk would not spot it unless measured, and most writers until of late have concentrated only on general shape, so do not expect histories to mention such subtleties.

No doubt, parallel side knives also made, likewise grinds varied between convex and flat, likewise secondary edging, depending on smith, depending on customer, depending on custom. Through near 1500yrs of making, though, many would have had definite ideas about what worked in that environment, and why. Leuku stayed fairly constant for hundreds of years until the industrial age and consumerism struck.


Edited by Lofty (06/18/17 09:32 AM)
_________________________
Cadent a latere tuo mille, et decem millia a dextris tuis;
ad te autem non appropinquabit.

Top
#161520 - 06/18/17 01:52 PM Re: Two New Camp Knives- Suomi Style.... [Re: Lofty]
desert.snake Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1111
Loc: the other side of the earth
Thank you!
It seems that it came to me smile

I was at the old topic, there are mostly photos of different times, there are pre-WW2and the 19th century and new.
On the leuku and see the different tips. There are sharper, there are more blunt. I hope it will be interesting.
http://rusknife.com/topic/10021-%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%B0%D0%BC%D1%8B-%D1%81-%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8/page-1


I understood about vibration. I think it's not just the thickness, but the overall design of the knife, its shank, the mass and shape of the handle. And more importantly, what part knife you strike.

I see somewhere a detailed analysis of vibrations depending on the form, but only on swords. But now I can not find him frown

I think we would have been helped by guys engaged in historical fencing from AEMMA

http://www.tameshigiri.ca/2014/05/16/why-a-sword-feels-right/

I found!! smile
http://armor.typepad.com/bastardsword/sword_dynamics.pdf
_________________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Top
#161521 - 06/18/17 02:25 PM Re: Two New Camp Knives- Suomi Style.... [Re: desert.snake]
Lofty Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 656
Absolutely, as for vibration, but on an 8"-9" blade, vibration mainly a thing of thickness, personally want something stouter than an 8" machete...

Thanks for the link. The differences between leuku can be at least as different than other names such as huggare, but am mainly talking AND speaking Suomi style and and the Lap/Sami of that area, and what THEY decided through time was the most perfect, versatile, and functional knife for them. Pasi does a very good version of such.

Even the leather covered wood, or bare solid wood with leather throat, is something authentic, but for their area. In tribes/clans where trees rarer, it would be antler, louder and heavier.

Personally very much like this particular style as done by Pasi, most knife handles far too fat, the flat prevents twisting even with heavy mittens, and the heft just about perfect for my tastes. Would not care for lighter machete feel, and much heavier would simply be too heavy and sluggish out front.

Good knife and tied for top with a couple of others for favorite larger knife. Much of that being simply trust, as the blade/tang virtually unbreakable in 80crV2, and a very sealed/glued/drive-fit water resistant handle, and edging/tip suprisingly versatile.

Would say, "oh how I wish I had bought one in younger military days", but, as with the USA rediscovering finest forged blades and trying to save history starting circa 1970, same thing and nearly same time happened in Finland in saving dying native art forms. So, it really has not matured until the last few decades as myths discarded and surviving original craftsmen and old wares interviewed and studied.

I am still chuckling over Pasi's idea that this leuku does not have much of a real point.



Edited by Lofty (06/18/17 03:41 PM)
_________________________
Cadent a latere tuo mille, et decem millia a dextris tuis;
ad te autem non appropinquabit.

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  pappy19, Peter_Kaufman