Got Ivory!!

O.K....this is all Bernie's fault.....BUT...
How 'bout we post them, if we have them....the end of Randall's Ivory products is upon us.
I believe these knives are some of the most beautiful knives to have come out of the shop!!
bragg'n rights are out there....for me, I'm sorry to say, I think that I have sold more than I have kept...
:-)Rocky

ok here is a cute little 2-5" dressed up! This one needs a new home and will soon be on the sales forum......

Great thread Rocky!

This one is late 40's....



1950's.....



1960's.....

Now that's great knives! Awesome Mitch....😀

Hey, there's a squirrel in here.

Super knives, everyone!

Please, no feeding the squirrels.

oh my goodness!!!
these photos are what I was talking about!!!
I'll bet we are going to get to see some great knives/shoot we already have!!
I was talking to a fellow Randall collector yesterday. He mentioned that he was going to be selling some of his Ivory Ranalls...to which I asked "why would you do that"? His response was "we really don't own these knives, we just get to keep them for a period of time, then they belong to someone else"
Here is one I sold a while back...
:-)Rocky

Here is my small Gambler and my Rick Bowles Special in ivory

Peter

Lots of great knives, keep'em coming!

Tune, those 1's are real showstoppers!

Cliff Lacey
RKS 23
RKCC - CM26

Thanks Cliff!

Here is an Ivory Grigg.... made by a former shop employee. Bowles scrim, Ken Hurst engraved and a Johnson sheath.

An ivory Griffin drop point.

All the model #25 handles, with Skaggs engraving.

Here are a few I found laying around. Years and Models?

Great knives, guys. Like Rocky, I've sold several ivory randalls that I wish I'd kept, but I can throw out this beautiful Randy Lee I bought in the mid 90s. Ivory and red micarta, and the ivory seems to get better looking with age.

Guys, you are killing me! Beautiful knives, all of them. Please show us more, that's what this forum is all about

Great knives, all of them.

Rocky, what sheath does that old fighter have?

Brian...... If you are inclined to trade on the pinned 1-6, let me know.

a couple more!

Mitchel,
Your going to laugh at me when I tell you this....
I cannot find the darn sheath!!! I had it, and it's gone....I've put it somewhere, but I do not, cannot, remember where....thought for a while that I just might have sent it to Grady....but I think that he would have called by now....I've been looking for the thing for a couple years....I was all over my dad for miss placing his sheaths, and look what has happened to me....
:-)Rocky

One of my customers orders Bowies every shipment. A 12-9 Sportsman's Bowie & a 12-8 Bear with nickel-silver furniture, including butt cap, and elephant ivory delivered just before the Shop's policy went into effect.

Sadly, the ivory cracked on the 12-9, three months after delivery.

Rocky,
You were aware of this, no ??
http://www.knifetalkforums.com/ubbthread...true#Post111254

Burnie told me...I did not recall, or I missed it completely. He was a good guy!! He always was looking to make a deal. I will miss him!!
:-)Rocky

Here I'm...

Some more...

Top shelf Guido! Each knife stands alone as a magnificent work of art. I’m drawn to the simplicity of the 12-6 ivory tip –- unique knife and a nice sheath pairing!

Have a good week,

Jay

Where does Guido come up with this stuff?
He should start his own, personal Randall museum!!!
I guess he as...never mind!!
:-)Rocky

Thanks Jay..!
Too generous Rocky ;))))

Here is a few!

LAST ONE I OWN

alright Guido now you're just being mean lol.
Love that Trapper scrim, who did that one.

Chief !
That trapper was made by an Italian master engraver: Roberto Bruci
Same guy who did the three Sachems on the new withe micarta.

Superb, Guido.

Nice work, very clean. That ivory 19 would be sexy even without a scrim. nice creations you commissioned into being.
You are braver than me I never did finger grips on my ivories.
I always bought them that way, the extra heat made me nervous lol

It's not ivory David. It's ivorite.
Best, Capt. Chris

lol then why do I still want them!!!!

Anything Guido has is worth wanting!!
:-)Rocky

while ivory probably isn't the best material for a carry piece, there are more than a couple that have been carried and used in the field, some by notable owners. Here is one that was carried in the Korean War according to the original owner's family and accompanying provenance.

Nevertheless, the handle has held up well with checking but no indications the handle would fail. This is particularly interesting as Korea has some rough winters. I say this knife (and sheath) is the definition of one with "character".

Here's my contribution: A September 1965 ordered 12-11 with ivory handle. It was ordered by an Army MP and carried in Vietnam. I've got the original order acknowledgment letter from Randall and the letter giving the ship date.

Dan Snyder
RKCC CM-155

Crutch!!
That knife is orgasmic!!
OMG
:-)Rocky

Rocky -

I have gone through a few in my day, and this is one I kinda wish I had held on to. Documented carried pieces from the Korean War seem to be the most difficult to find out of the "Big Three", WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam.

"I've got the original order acknowledgment letter from Randall and the letter giving the ship date."


And THAT my friends is the real Provenance that counts!

---DW---

I recently purchased a Model 12-9 Sportsman Bowie with an elephant ivory tip handle. It was described as having a walrus handle so I asked David Warther about the handle material and he made some very interesting comments. I learned facts about ivory I never knew. Here are his comments:

The type of grain as well as the colors in the ivory tell me for sure this is West African hard ivory ( WAHI ). Notice the tan on the top run of the ivory and the lace grain on the sides of the handle - clear features of WAHI. It is great stuff - when I find such tusks I set them aside for special uses on musical instruments as the material has better acoustical properties than does savannah ivory. The material is 7% heavier than savannah ivory and harder. It has a glassier look and feel to it and has a degree of translucency not found in any of the other ivories - it has a glow about it and in thinner forms, less massive form than this handle, the translucency is highly pronounced and most endearing to the soul. If you hold it very close to a very bright light ( do so briefly so no lasting heat can affect your ivory ) and compare it to other elephant handles under this condition you will see the glow and translucency I make mention of. Its features include it being less likely to crack from heat seizing.

This is an exceptional handle. If both sides show this vivid lace grain with a similar look then your handle was made from a very small tusk and the nerve runs the centerline of the handle. The WA tusks are smaller than savannah, by far, and recently it was determined to be a different specie - settling an argument that ran for millennia. I would say the tusk was only 1.5 to 2 feet long and most likely came from Liberia, West Africa. The glassy tactile nature of this type ivory caused it to be highly sought after by the Brits for their chess sets. What made it to America were from personal hunts in Liberia and sometimes Nigeria, occasionally western Congo, and often enough brought back by missionaries. The rubber plantations in WA, especially Liberia, brought the majority of the stock into the US. All of our rubber companies ( tires ) had extensive plantations there thru the 60's and 70's until the rubber plantations in SE Asia, Malaysia, etc. took the volume away. So for decades there was a flow of " rubber executive ivory " streaming in from WA with such tusks. Few, if any, were imported by the import houses here in the US as the commercial trade saw them headed to London for domestic use only - not for re-exportation - again - for the Brit's chess set companies.

The size, geometry and glassy feel of the WAHI could have caused a novice to believe he/she had a walrus tusk section and so there is a plausible explanation as to why the original owner, or subsequent owner(s) believed he/she had a walrus ivory Randall. Also, the glassy feel of the finished product is much like the glassy feel of walrus - modern walrus more so than fossil has this self-same feature. At this point I would bet good money this is WAHI. I live 50 miles from Akron, Ohio and have bought a lot of " rubber ivory " over the years from the estates of the rubber company executives that lived near this tire capital of the world. Incredible material.

The nerve is clearly seen coming out on the end so this is elephant (walrus does not have a black dot nerve) and, as mentioned, West African. It is from the tip of a small WAHI tusk.

Jim,gorgeous piece.The Warther explanation is excellent.
Tom RKCC CM-099

David...
It's amazing what you(not me) can see by just what is illustrated in the photo's. It goes to show who the professional is. Also Goes to the point about why we cannot use "pre" ivory, form a true professional who knows the business.
:-)R
oh....darn beautiful knife!!

HERE'S A GREAT KNIFE, PURE SILVER HILT, SPACERS AND BUTT CAP FROM DOUG C. AND BLUE FOSSIL WALRUS CENTER.

Beautiful knife Jim, I haven't seen to many of the big knives with a "tip" handle.
Do you have a rough idea as to the age of the knife?

Randall ended the practice of using tusk "tips" about 8 (or so..Scott: Help me?) years ago. Prior to that, I had used a few, as did others. Hard to say just how many were made in total?
Best, Capt. Chris

Chief,

I don't know the age as I bought it second hand.

Here are a few more "Tips" for you.

Jim

WOW Jim......Beautiful "TIPS"!!

I can't believe that I'm seeing all of these "tips", unreal display.

Pap

Jim, you are the king of fine ivory.

And my "ivory" certainly is not the same....., BUT, I do love Tips!

Jim,

I never knew that the Bowles tip you got from me had a matching tip with collar & engraving! David engrave it also?

Very sweet collection you have there.

Jim,

Your collection is absolutely amazing.

Alan Grombacher
RKCC-CMI-010
RKS#5531

I have just this one...

Jim: your collection of Ivory Tips is just...outstanding !!!

Well, can't compete with Jim, the finest ivory collection I've ever seen... but here's 2 new arrivals for my collection, thanks Burnie!
Rob

Anytime Rob and thank you for an easy and pleasant transaction.

A couple more camp and trails just in...another outstanding job from the crew at Randall, business as usual!!

Many Thanks,
Rob

Rob,

Great looking knives; the one with the butt plate is extraordinary! Enjoy them.

Tom Flynn

Dear lord!!!
:-)Rocky

Rob
Super looking knives, you picked some great handle material

Peter

Nice pieces of fossil, when you can get them shaped & no pith shows but the color stays very nice in deed great looking RMK's!!

A+ Rob.

Thanks Guys!!

Rob

Very nice! I love fossil ivory.....:)

Just...AMAZING !!

Griffin drop point with Leschorn and Skagg's embellishment. Mastodon ivory. Light is a bit bright to get the true color and texture.

That is a sweet looking Griffin
and the B side?

Chief,
Call me...and "Yes"...Joe: The knife is sweet. Even nicer than you described on the phone today. Bringing it to Blade?
Capt. Chris

Cap'n, check your email pls.

David -

don't have good photos right now that really show that handle well. Light is a bit bright on the posted ones. I'll see if I can get a few better ones.

Joe,

Great knife; the shaped handle and engraving, it is one of the best!

Tom Flynn

Chief,

Is this the knife below you had? Here is the info on the engraving:

The nickel silver hilt & collar were engraved by David Perdue - marked DP115. All the acorns are 24 carat gold inlay.

Jim

Jim,

Yes that was it. I was curious if the one 3rd from the left in the group picture is like a match for it? They look like left & right tusk tips.

That knife is the only un-signed scrim by Rick Bowles that I know of.

Chief,

That's the same knife front and back as the one above. I probably shouldn't have done it, but I had Rick sign it.

I'm still feeling a little tipsy, so here are are three Model 7's.

Jim

Beautiful! Especially the ones with the cracks.

Rob

Rob,

Technically these "cracks" are "natural surface checks" since they do not penetrate into the the ivory. I believe the old pachyderm creates these when he roots around with his tusks. Some do not like them, but I think it adds character.

Now, this is a CRACK!

Unfortunately, I don't believe this crack came from the elephant rooting around. At some point, this ivory expanded and was forced to crack under pressure between the guard and the pommel. Same thing happened on my Rod Chappel knife. Love it still the same, though.

Ivory cracks are like scars!!
Chicks dig them!!
:-)Rocky

Don't have much to contribute here, just a Lil Nutcracker!

Crazy!!
That's a fine "nutcracker"!!!
:-)Rocky

Jim,

I'm surprised that the crack isn't closed tighter than that where you live!
it probably would here in Louisiana with the humidity.
Nice deep engraving.

Chief,

Here it is all closed up.

Ha now your just being mean ....flipping it over!
Very nice, did you have David engrave it or did it come that way?
You can't even see the crack, did it happen while you had it or did it come that way from a previous owner?

Chief,

I didn't flip it over! The Randall logo is always in the photos.

I had a luthier (look it up), who was an expert in ivory repair, fill the crack. Then I asked a scrimshaw artist to complete the cover-up.

Jim

Jim you are truly a man who loves his ivory........Hats off to you awesome job.

I couldn't let Mitchell have all the fun.

VERY nice Steve!

Beautiful knife.

me neither!!
:-)Rocky

Here's a neat #11 from a few years ago:

I'll add one more - a 14 :

Niceeeee!

I really like that #11, what a beautiful handle!!
:-)Rocky

FWI 2-4... the "wife knife" ( she hasn't stuck it in me yet ) The .45 is an original US National Match, 1964 issue, with the Drake slide. Packaging and cheesecloth - wrapped cleaning rod original to the weapon.

Wow....awesome pistol. I'm a huge 1911 fan.

I like Single Action Armys myself.
- Buckspen

Either of the last two types of ".45's" are cool guns.

1 Narwhal
4 FWI
Rest are Ivory
Pictures suck but these RMK's still look good.

I really like that push dagger!

- - - Buckspem

Very nice ivory!

That Cattleman SFG done by the shop?

Yes, It looks good to me.

I have no love for a Cattleman.......but that set up is sexy looking.
How long is that handle?

Handle is a tad over 4".

Nice gives me a better idea of size.

Blade is exactly 3 1/4"

Eric, message me about the two knives shown between the push dagger and the Cattleman please. Thank you!

All Ivory

I'm loving that Model 4-7" on the bottom right!

TB, Came with a Brown Button Sheath with white print 2 tone stone. Named to a Nobel L. Gardner

Eric,
What about that very early Pathfinder? Who did that custom handle? Was it done @ the Randall shop...cause it sure looks different? Did it come with a sheath? Was the sheath a Johnson pouch-style? (So many questions)
Nice, Capt. Chris

Capt. Chris, More picks on the Pathfinder. I like the look of the FWI on one side and Musk ox on the other sandwiched by Black Micarta. Brass hilt and pommel with bl/Br/Bl spacers.

Eric, was the Model 26 above one of Jack Crider's custom builds? It sure is a beauty!

No, came from a friend in Germantown, OH

...Who might have gotten it from Jack if it was one of his knives.

Larry

I called my friend, He said he got it from Tom Clinton. Came with a croc Sullivan sheath marked croc on the back. I can add pics on f the sheath?

No, that's fine. I love it though!

Eric I want to thank you in advance for selling me that Ivory Clinton special one day LOL!
One of my favorite knives!

Eric,
The center is "definitely" FWI. Only walrus ivory has the crystalized center (nerve area). It looks similar to heating a marble and then quenching it, immediately thereafter, in ice water. (Used to do this to make a marble a more lethal slingshot weapon)...You'll notice this on one side of your handle center. Hope this helps.
Best, Capt. Chris

Capt. Chris, That explains the pattern perfectly. Have you seen any other handle examples using what looks to be a solid black micarta section? Is the sheath correct for an early Model 26? Thanks, Eric

I have never seen a Randall shop-supplied rig like this one. The very first Pathfinders (before they were a catalog Model #) came in a variety of sheaths. Sullivans, like the one you have were used fairly early but some of the old Johnson (Johnny Johnson) pouch sheaths (sheath type / no keeper strap) were used early on. I hate to speculate as to why, how, who, etc...but they could well have been spare sheaths, laying around the Randall shop...not being model-specific, and working quite well.
I'll dig up an example and post it later on. Right now, and for the past 2 days, I have been working on a new "redneck photo-shootin' project"...more to come...
Best, Capt. Chris

Eric, your sheath is correct for an early Model 26 Pathfinder. Here is my 1992 Rick Bowles Ivory embellished knife and correct sheath for comparison.

Thanks Guys for the expertise.....and a BIG Happy Fathers Day to all!

Same to you Sir!

Just won the lottery..

WOW! Beautiful!

Great looking knife with some outstanding features (love the hilt engraving). Congratulations! I was one of the underbidders for it on ebay. Nice to know it went to a new home where it will be appreciated.

Thanks Bob, it will be greatly appreciated and goes into the never sell pile. I also have Rhett's catalog, it seems to have added a few cracks since then.

Rob

Rob, sorry to hear about the cracks; always a danger with that handle material. Enjoy it in good health, as it is a beautiful example of the bladesmith's art. The engraved hilt, the etched Bo signature, the handle shape and material, and the blade profile all came together just about perfectly, at least from my perspective (I'm a big fan of the drop point design). Not a bad provenance either according to the catalog listing. It was the first of the Rhett catalog knives that've sold on ebay recently that I bid on (I've watched a few, but have not pulled the bid trigger until this one came up). There have been some cool ones, but yours is a real gem. There is a somewhat similarly configured Model 10-3.75" listed today on ebay. Again, congrats on a great piece for the collection.

Bob, The knife on eBay (291813925338) you refer to also has a W.D. Randall etching on the blade. It also is in the 1991 catalog. I was told the etching on that special Model 10 blade was not authorized by RMK. That is why I returned it to the eBay seller. He is a great seller and returned my payment without issue. I did not tell him why I was returning the knife.

I shied away from the Ivory DP because I feared that etching was also unauthorized by RMK.

Rob, If you care to find out.....you can send your Knife to Joe Dorsky, he may be able to verify the etching on your DP.

Eric

Thanks Eric. Good information to know.

Great to know!
Thanks for the information.

Yes Eric, thanks for the heads up on the 10-3. I also considered bidding on that one but when I'd seen the drop point come along, my mind was made up. I've yet to own a Griffin DP and I'm very lucky to get one in ivory, whether Bo's signature or not.

Just curious as who stated the 10-3 signature was not authorized, was it the seller, a Randall dealer, Joe? It seems about 10 knives(not including the 50th anniversary models)in the catalog that have the same signature, wondering if just some or all 10 for that matter were not authorized. I've met Joe and know he's the new authenticator, maybe he'll post something. Thanks again.

Rob

DW stated that the model 10 as Cap has stated is not shop produced with that ivory handle and shape, etching done at a later date.

Capt. said that Pete Hamilton had the panograph signature template for the Hermes acid-etching machine and has/had been known to provide that service.

This was in the "My Randalls" thread found here:

http://www.knifetalkforums.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=139026&page=5

Awesome Eric, many thank's for the link, don't know how I missed that post. I am more of a lurker than a poster but try to keep up.

Pete did the blade etching. Pete also did the early blade etchings for Tom's Vietnam Veteran Model #14. Pete had SF logos and various other logos he would acid etch. The cursive signature was one of Pete's favorite "projects".
Hope this helps, Capt. Chris
PS: It should be noted that Pete also did some of these etchings "while" still active and "at" the shop. I have a couple that are 100% legit! CCS

O.K...this really wasn't the thread I was looking for, but, I'll start here....
So, not only is the current administration going to allow the import(case by case) of ivory, it appears that they are going to relax many restrictions on other hunting trophies as well. Will this encourage folks in the knife business to reconsider some of their policies concerning ivory??

:-)Rocky

The policy change set forth in the 3/1/2018 US DOI FWS Memorandum appears to only affect the criteria used by the FWS in evaluating applications for permits to import certain trophy materials (particularly for African elephants sport-hunted in South Africa, Namibia, Zambia and Zimbabwe). The existing across-the-board prohibition on the issuance of permits to import such trophies is apparently being lifted, and import permit applications will instead be reviewed (and approved or denied) on a case-by-case basis.

The FWS Memorandum does NOT appear to change any policies other than those regarding criteria for trophy import permits. The Memorandum does NOT mention, or appear to affect, the FWS 7/6/2016 near-total ban on US interstate commerce in African elephant ivory, subject to the stated exceptions, i.e., antique, de minimis, CITES pre-convention certified, etc. The Memorandum also does not mention or affect any African elephant ivory ownership or commerce ban or restrictions imposed by individual states.

Here is a link/location to the US DOI Fish & Wildlife Service 3/1/2018 Memorandum.

https://www.fws.gov/international/pdf/me...ed-trophies.pdf

Bob

O.K....I'm sorry, so what does all that mean??
Ivory, or no ivory

:-)Rocky

Rocky,

I think that it means you can apply for a permit to import ivory from those African nations if it is part of a trophy which you sport-hunted. No guarantee that the permit will be issued, but you are able to apply for it and the decision will be made on a case-by-case basis (no such permits issued under former rules).

There has been no change to the ban on interstate ivory commerce or sales in the US in place since July, 2016.

It is still OK to own ivory, but not OK to sell it in interstate commerce unless it qualifies under one of the exceptions (e.g., de minimis usage, made before 7/2016, and is antique or was imported to US pre-CITES convention; and you have the records or documents to prove it). I don't think you'll see RMK, or any other knife makers, changing their no-African elephant ivory policy based on this memorandum.

Bob