Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 12/30/0707:49 AM
Thanks to all who have posted thus far. This week we shall cover the remaining 3 models of the Model 12s. The Smithsonian, the Confederate Bowie, and the Raymond Thorp Bowie.
From Randall Made Knives: The History of the Man and the Blades by Robert L. Gaddis
Quote: When he [Bo] watched the Warner Brothers motion picture The Iron Mistress in late 1952, starring Alan Ladd in the role of James Bowie, Bo knew that he could shortly expect the arrival of numerous requests for similar large bowie knives.... The first thing he needed was a picture of this Iron Mistress knife so that he could get a good idea of its dimensions.
A day or two after viewing the movie, Bo contacted his good friend the theater manager there in Orlando with his request for a frame of the film showing the big knife. They took one from the sequence where the blacksmith, Mr. Black, is demonstrating the knife for Jim Bowie.... From this picture, he and Bill Platts were able to make a similar knife....
..."1 Bowie, 11 x 3/8 x 2 1/2, Brass Strip & Butt Cp." Expanding upon this abbreviated notation gives us an Iron Mistress-style bowie whose blade is 11 inches long, made from 3/8-inch-thick stock, with a width of 2 1/2 inches. Swedish tool steel made up the blade, and a brass strip was welded down the back or spine part of the top edge. The butt cap was made from brass instead of the usual aluminum. The hilt and handle materials weren't mentioned, so we know that they were the usual brass and leather, respectively....
In the late 1950s, correspondence with the Smithsonian Institution established that it had an authentic knife from the 1830s or 1840s that was very similar in size and style to this Randall bowie. This led Bo to call it the "Smithsonian Bowie" when he named all the Model 12 bowie knives....
About midway through 1957, Bo wrote to Alan Ladd at Warner Brothers Studio, posing a couple of questions, the one being the actual dimensions of the Iron Mistress knife used in the movie. ... [Alan Ladd's reply] shows that the Randall Model 12 Heavy, later named "Smithsonian" was very close in size as well as shape to the motion picture knife. (pp. 131-134)
Quote: The second bowie to become the standard in the Randall line was the one now called "The Confederate Bowie." It, too, had an 11-inch blade, but its width was a slimmer 1 7/8 inch and the forging stock was 1/4 inch instead of 3/8 inch tool steel. At first, it was known as the Light Bowie, or simply noted as "Bowie, 11 x 1 7/8 x 1/4 inch." It received its current name... because of the blade's close resemblance to one on an authentic homemade Civil War bowie. Bo obtained this antique knife in 1954 from Robert Ables, the well-known and respected antique firearms and edged weapons dealer....(p. 135)
Quote: Raymond W. Thorp had a solid reputation as a writer and historian in the field of early Western Americana. He had authored many hundreds of magazine articles, but of more interest to Bo was his book Bowie Knife that had been published by the University of New Mexico Press in 1948.
[The men had a long friendship, carried on by letter.] Ray Thorp wrote something that Bo quoted many times in later years: "I still think that if Bowie himself were around and there was no Black in sight, he would order your Number One, maybe with a longer blade." (James Black is the blacksmith usually credited with making James Bowie's original knife.)
...The first Randall Made Thorp Bowie left the Orlando shop in April 1956 and went by special delivery mail to the Iraqi Embassy in Washington, D.C. This knife was part of a two-knife set, the Bowie and Arkansas Toothpick, ordered in December 1955 for King Faisal II of Iraq....
Bo had written to Raymond Thorp at the time of the Iraqi order, but Thorp had moved, and Bo didn't know his new address. This problem wasn't solved until Thorp sent a short letter to Bo on 16 March 1957. His opening sentence read: "I have just received from King Faisal of Iraq a large picture of the knives you made for him at my suggestion."
Bo was glad to hear from his old friend.... I am enclosing a check for $16.00, which I wanted to send you long ago for the commission on the King Faisal order, and I hope that you will accept it. (pp. 157-159)
I'm really looking forward to seeing these huge-bladed masterpieces. Lady and Gentlemen, may we please see some Smithsonians, Confederates, and Thorps.
I hope you all have a healthy and happy New Year! Kevin #5109
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 01/01/0809:17 AM
Happy New Year To All, I've posted this one before.Will try to take pic's of two more & post later.Early 50's Brassback Smithy,Moore Sheath. GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS!!!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 01/02/0803:57 PM
12 Heavy.Mid 60's vintage.Have papers & letter from Randall,shipped to MP.at West Point.The Commander told the MP not to carry the Big Smith on duty as it was too intimidating.I Love It... GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS!!!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 08/17/0811:22 AM
A few years back I spoke with authorized Randall dealer and all around good guy, Wayne Buxton. He told me that in his opinion anyone who is a true Randall knife collector should have a Smithsonian Bowie in his collection. I asked Wayne to please order me one in the configuration that he felt was best. I was delighted when this knife came in the mail.
As you can see, the shop did a great job. Everything from blade to hilt to collar to walnut handle to butt cap is well thought out and, in my opinion, gorgeous.
Thanks to Wayne and thanks to the Randall shop for my first, but not last, Randall Knife Smithsonian Bowie.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 08/17/0810:15 PM
So Kevin I see that membership at the gym is paying off you're finally able to own a big knife!! Great Knife, large knives can get addicting....better watch out!!!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 08/20/0809:42 AM
By the way, very cool knife Kevin. We'll have to try to catch up with each other so I can hold it. I'm thinking maybe a "walneto" stand to match the handle?? I think the continuity would look good...as would a contrasting color for that matter. You think about it. ~dale
P.S. I bet you could find someone to carve a sun on the handle.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 03/15/0904:33 PM
Here is a model 12-6" sportsman bowie with comando handle and seperate S blade stamp, lugged hilt and commando handle made of rosewood. Notice high strike on the S stamp.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 03/15/0906:19 PM
Burnie & Rob,
Real nice #12's there. I've got another 12-11 Smithsonian on order and I hope it'll be here in August. DIB, brass forward curved hilt, collar and butt cap. I love those 12's.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/01/0907:08 PM
Recently I had an idea for a project with an engraver friend of mine Dan Grubaugh from Michigan. I've seen his work many times but decided one day to give this Smith already a classic knife on it's own merits, an embellishment. We discussed many different ideas, sketched out several patterns, and finally decided on this design. I just received the knife back today and while Dan kept me involved with work in progress photos, the real deal has exceeded my expectations. I'm posting 3 photo's that I think really show off a beautiful engraving on this Smithsonian.
The last image was this Smith before I sent it to Dan.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/01/0907:38 PM
Kevin,
The entire process is pretty fascinating and I learned much about engraving as the project unfolded. You pretty much remove everything you don't want and what's left is the finished product. It sounds simple. I can't draw a straight line without a ruler or a curved line without a template much less do what these artists do and make it flow. I'll certainly be considering more projects in the future. Thanks for your generous comments.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/02/0909:27 AM
WARREN! MAN! This knife exceeds any and all of your descriptions you gave in our conversations. It's incredible! Congratulations. Tony PS ... I think Kevin is right
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/02/0905:42 PM
Warren since we all agree that it's a Beautiful job on the engraving................you sure that ya didn't get it done so that it would lighten it up so that you could carry it!!!!!! Great job!!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 01/14/1005:06 PM
Here's a pic of my latest that I received from Rick Ward last Friday. 12-11 Smithsonian Bowie, desert ironwood handle, brass fch, collar and butt cap. It weighs in at 2 pounds 13 + ounces with the sheath. This is a brute of a knife. I really do like these Smithsonan Bowies.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/28/1012:01 PM
I saw in another post that the dealers have been limited in the amount of bowies per order as part of trying to reduce the wait and shipping time. Understandable, considering it must take a long time to build these big ones. But that begs the question, how long, from start to finish, does it take to make a 12-11 Smithsonian Bowie? I can understand if for business pruposes this question can't be answered and if this is the wrong thread for this post, please feel free to move it. Thanks for all information that anyone may e able to provide.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/29/1009:57 PM
Sorry if I'm being a straight-shooter here, but even if that's the case (and I haven't heard that), what difference does it make to you? You're not a dealer, right? I've been ordering 12s with no problems.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/29/1010:29 PM
Steve, My very...very first order was shot down by Bo and Gary. At the time I was allowed 12 knives per month (or maybe it was 10...long time ago). I ordered "all" Model #12's and both #13's. I "tricked" them out (for the times) with stag handles, lugged hilts and brass butt caps. I was told that the order was too hard to make and that I needed to space my Bowie orders out over several month's worth of orders...and that was in the early 80's! It has always slowed production down when too many Model #12's or #13's get ordered. Good question with regards to actually how much time is spent on one Bowie. I suppose, like any other Randall model it is going to be predicated on the options as well as the particular knife model. Bo once told me the Model #13-12" was the most difficult Randall knife to make. I don't know if that still holds true, but everything on it has to be done..."TWICE"!! Best, Capt. Chris PS: Maybe "DW" can give us a guesstimate as to the actual time per Bowie. I'll see if I can't find out...CCS PPS: Here's one I had made up a few years ago...in "OOSIC" handle!...CCS
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/29/1010:35 PM
DW has tried on many occasion to give the forum participants an idea of how long it takes to build a RMK. A while back Scott posted a rather humorous piece on the subject but I could not seem to find it. The fact is: There are so many individual steps to making any RMK and with required drying/curing times as well as going through many different hands and with some processes done in batches it is probably not only not practical but may not be realistic to state production time for any given model. An educated estimate is more than likely the best anyone could do.. I have been involved in process analysis time studies many time over the years and it is easier said than done.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/30/1006:59 AM
Jeff, It really doesn't make any difference to me. The questions was asked out of curiosity more than anything else. I was admiring my 2 Smithsonians and began wondering how long it takes to make such a great, large knife. Also, I had read in a post that the orders for the bowies was limited so I asked my question.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/30/1008:19 AM
Tom,
Could this have been the post(s) you were referring to: QUOTE
Sam; Since you aren't going to let this slide on either forum, I'll try to explain why it would be IMPOSSIBLE to give you the names of who EXACTLY worked on your particular knives...I'm going to use numbers to represent the current RMK employees by order of seniority...
RMK produces somewhere between 150-170 knives a week, and this is kind of how they progress along...(sure hope I don't time out on this post--
#'s 7 and 14 pull the steel from the blade bins and cut to length needed for this particular batch to be produced, then... 3&8 then forges, 14 & 18 then rough shape, 14, 18 & 8, and sometimes #3 forge grind, #8 heat treats and stamps, 8 and 3 QC before turning in to the bade bins, (no comment here #9), #8 pulls the weeks bladelist from said bins, 150 plus ASSORTED blades and final shapes, 8,12,4 and sometimes #2 grinds to front room finish, 12 and 4 stone them to smooth the grind lines, 16 & 17 first hone, #3 sands to smooth finish establish front room lines, 4,9,12, and newbie 17 first polish, 16 sands and polishes backs and cutouts, 16 then pulls and sands hilts and puts them on the correct (mostly) knives, #2 fits for soldering, 12 & 17 clean them for soldering, #4 solders hilts and lugs to blades, 2,4, 17 and 12 layout weeks knives for handle markings, 17 drills handles, 15 and 4 ream handles, 2 fits handles, 4 joins 2 for final fitting of buttcaps, cont....
Edited by Dirty_Water (06/08/09 10:54 PM) _________________________ Scott RKS #014
Registered: 09/13/05 Posts: 863 Loc: central fl. 12, 15 16 and 17 and sometimes 13 put handles together, (this use to be a 2 man job...never mind... 4 & 13 shape handles, 2 final shapes handles, 16 & 17 file handles, 9 & 15, and later 4 sand hilts and handles 3 times to finer grits, 2 lays out weeks worth of knives again, 13 & 15 2nd hones these knives, (meanwhile 16, 17 are 1st honing next batch again, usually there are 2 batches running each week at the same time) 4 & 9 second polish and re-2nd hone blades, 3 final polishes and final hones blades, 13 adds fg, ci, and wt to finished handles, 13 & 15 final polish handles and blades to turn into office, 5 & 6 hone, sheath, polish (blades and handles) and FINAL hone, 5 wraps and ships knives to you...
Meanwhile; #1, 10 & 11 are doing almost the same routine in the 14 room, (watch it #9),
not forgetting: making of the stock (hilts, fibers, buttcaps, etc...etc...) marking steel, forging tangs, final shaping of bowie blades, grinding the tangs, the initial layout of the knives, countersinking the buttcaps, grinding off of said nuts, marking for fg, ci and wt's,
and of course bringing up the weeks screw ups because of soooo many steps...
Now, you see why it would be IMPOSSIBLE to tell you EXACTLY who worked on YOUR knife?!?--
whew...DW...whew _________________________ Scott RKS #014
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/30/1009:22 AM
You're welcome, Rhett. (It's good to see "Big Brother" is watchin'...) Best to Janie. I still think she deserves an award.
Steve: Anytime. I'd be glad to help you get a "big boy" coming. I do not order a huge amount of Bowies and the majority of them are #12-8 and #12-9's. I probably receive less than 10 Model #12 "Heavy's" per year. I am positive that I do several things to upset them down at the Randall shop..."BUT"...(There's that word again) ordering too many huge Randall Bowies ain't one of them.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 10/03/1002:49 PM
I just received this Smithsonian Bowie the other day and had a chance to take a few pictures. It seems to have a left hand palm swell to the stag which is great for me if I find that I need to use it some time. Another excellent example of the work of the craftsmen in the shop.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 10/26/1103:27 PM
This also arrived today from Capt. Chris and it is Moroccan Desert Ironwood with brass and red spacers. I hope that it fits in my knife storage as it is a monster It was hard to take photos as it is so long, it barely fit in my light box.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 10/26/1106:58 PM
Glad ya' like it Peter. I never post photos of customer's knives..."BUT" (There's that word again)...Now that everyone knows it's yours...and you've gone and posted it up for all of these Scaliwags to see...Here ya' go! Nice knife, Capt. Chris
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 10/26/1111:07 PM
Peter,
You can cut half the forest down with that bad boy on one of your trail adventures. No kidding, very nicely done but large. You need a bigger sharpening stone.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 12/12/1110:33 AM
Here's my new Smithsonian which is my Christmas present to me. The shop did an excellent job as usual. As big as it is this one feels very balanced in my hand and very comfortable. I love these big Smiths. Thanks Cap for helping me put this one together.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 12/12/1106:43 PM
Steve, Have a vertical sheath made to hang from your side just like a shoulder holster for you favorite handgun.Conceled carry. or Dundee style,hang handle small of back vertical also.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/07/1206:24 PM
Jim, You should set up tours to come view your knives. I would be first in line and ready to pay a hefty admission fee. You should have your own thread with just your collection. Thanks for sharing.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/07/1207:29 PM
Thanks for the kind comments. Below is a photo of the other side (pardon the blown highlights-I've got to re-shoot). Also is a group photo of the Smithsonian part of the collection that I call "The Smiths Brothers" (please pardon the cough drop reference).
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/08/1207:29 AM
Truly exceptional. Thanks for showing them. I second what Jimmy B said about having your own thread. Or maybe even a website like tunefink's? Just a thought...
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/08/1205:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Rick Magee
Truly exceptional. Thanks for showing them. I second what Jimmy B said about having your own thread. Or maybe even a website like tunefink's? Just a thought...
Agreed, I'd like to see more of the one with the Border Patrol handle too.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/09/1202:52 PM
Peter,
I do love those interesting handles and hilts. Engraving and scrimshaw are favorites too as are special edition knives like the Randall minis, 50th Anniversary (how about a 75th Anniversary one Gary?), and those rare and one-of-a-kind Randall's done during Bo's lifetime.
Here is one more Smith with pure silver hardware, a Narwhal handle, engraving by Skaggs with a pair of Narwhal on the butt cap with the crossed teeth done in gold leaf.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/10/1206:47 PM
Jim, I thought I recognized your Smith from Ricks site, I ordered a Smith during a visit to the shop about 5/6 years ago and it came up recently for specs, I sent the Shop a picture from Ricks site and said that is what I want, Just recently recieved the knife and it looks just like yours, obviously I like it alot...
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/20/1208:46 PM
For some reason my pictures did not all load??
As you can possibly notice when I ordered mine I sent a picture of yours taken from Ward's site and drew on it how I wanted the shape I asked the shop to fatten the handle slightly, to put a wider larger curve in the handle where it meets the hilt at the spacer stack and I asked for a radiused but cap. I even took the printed picture from Ward's site and drew on it with pencil complete with arrows and tracing paper how I wanted the changes from yours for the shaper of the handle to see what I was after, can you notice the difference? The other difference I noted when recieved the knife is that my but cap is not paralel with the hilt like yours is, this i didn't ask for...after all RMKs are hand made and all knives are not the same.
By the way sorry about the finish on the knife as it still has the shop preserative on it, also if you click on "attachments a full picture of the knife appears.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/21/1201:26 PM
The 1961 date is what raises the question. What does it infer? Retirement from the Corps? Elistment in the Corps? Commission as an officer? Hard to say, but I do not think the date references when the knife was made.
Could be a replacement sheath, but probably not. I think that sheath is original to the knife.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/22/1210:31 AM
Large and in charge Raymond Thorp Bowie. I would like to share my RTB with you guy's. It has some features that are not usually seen on this type of knife. It has a #14 style double hilt with drilled thong holes. You could hack off an elephants leg with this thing. Very impressive knife.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/22/1210:01 PM
I ordered a complete set of Bowies made up like this. This could have been one of them? (Long, long time ago...like the Don McClean song) Nice, Capt. Chris
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 09/21/1206:00 PM
Just received this today ordered, December 2007 before I knew a lot about options, it has but one option, a brass butt cap, but it is still a classic. These #12-13" are hard to photograph because they are so long.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 09/22/1209:54 PM
Jimmy, you tie the now famous Bo Randall "Wrist Loop" on that short lanyard and that knife will never slip out of your hand with the Model #14 Double Hilt Hole.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 09/23/1205:17 PM
I really like the Thorp bowie--bought this older used one a number of years ago (think its vintage is 1970's). It was in fair shape, and I kept it that way, finally decided a couple of years ago to send it to Gary for refurbishing. The Shop did a great job; only thing is that the cleaning took all the black out of the 'Randall' stamp!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 04/30/1307:05 AM
Here's my latest 12-11 Smithsonian. This makes #4. I know it's an illness. A member of another forum knows I like them and made me an offer I couldn't refuse. It came with the custom sheath shown as well as the regular sheath. A nice addition to my small collection. My pictures definitely do not do it justice.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/01/1310:26 AM
Thank you, Steve. One of the most interesting features of this Smithsonian is that a previous owner scribed his name, social security number and what appears to be a US Army service number on the back of the sheath. My wife, who happens to be a master internet searcher and genaelogy expert, was able to turn up the following information. Donald J. Monterosso is the name on the back of the sheath. He was born on 1/31/1931 in Michigan and served in the 32nd Regiment, 7th Infantry Division, U.S. Army in Korea with the rank of Corporal. He took part in the landing at Inchon, North Korea and five other major battles and received the Combat Infantry Badge, Purple Heart and three unit citations. He was with First Sgt. Ben Wilson when Wilson won the Medal of Honor and Purple Heart on June 5, 1951 at Hwachon. Monterosso died on 1/14/2000 and is buried in Resurrection Cemetery in Clinton Township, Michigan. May he rest in peace. (Please note that I am not saying this is a 1950's knife. Obviously, it is not. I just think it is interesting that this decorated Korean war veteran owned this knife at some time in his life.) - - - - - Buckspen
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 03/16/1406:03 PM
I met Mr. Randall at the Sportsman's Show in Toronto in 1953. He was offering a Smithsonian Bowie, with a pinned stag handle, for $50. I was a teenager at the time, and that price was just beyond me. But I had seen the movie, and lusted after that knife. Now I have one, with the famous brass strip on the spine. Pretty nice, but pretty heavy, too.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/15/1406:39 PM
Another way to view Steve's Bowies.
If you make a copy of the PNG and save it as a JPEG, it probably will "print" on the forum. Keep the file size down to about 1 MB. This one is about 700kb
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/15/1409:03 PM
Originally Posted By: Buckspen
Thank you, Steve. One of the most interesting features of this Smithsonian is that a previous owner scribed his name, social security number and what appears to be a US Army service number on the back of the sheath. My wife, who happens to be a master internet searcher and genaelogy expert, was able to turn up the following information. Donald J. Monterosso is the name on the back of the sheath. He was born on 1/31/1931 in Michigan and served in the 32nd Regiment, 7th Infantry Division, U.S. Army in Korea with the rank of Corporal. He took part in the landing at Inchon, North Korea and five other major battles and received the Combat Infantry Badge, Purple Heart and three unit citations. He was with First Sgt. Ben Wilson when Wilson won the Medal of Honor and Purple Heart on June 5, 1951 at Hwachon. Monterosso died on 1/14/2000 and is buried in Resurrection Cemetery in Clinton Township, Michigan. May he rest in peace. (Please note that I am not saying this is a 1950's knife. Obviously, it is not. I just think it is interesting that this decorated Korean war veteran owned this knife at some time in his life.) - - - - - Buckspen
If you want a true trip into horror, read about the 7th Infantry Division in Korea. Inchon, and then Chosin Reservoir where elements of the division suffered 90 percent casualties east of the reservoir (the Marines were west of the reservoir). The 31st and 32nd regiments of the 7th Infantry were destroyed ... not a pleasant read. And then later they were committed onto Porkchop Hill! This man had a truly historic and horrific combat experience.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 04/14/1607:41 PM
To be serious for a minute that's exactly what is going on in the knife world right now. Families are liquidating collections and knives are coming from everywhere. Just saying.....
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/05/1602:34 PM
IF it's in the same condition, IF it has the brass back, IF the sheath is original, and condition similar, IF all these apply, you could have a valuable knife, but I still would hesitate to guess a price. Any pictures?
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/05/1605:42 PM
Please post some pictures of your knife and sheath so we can at least enjoy them, if not estimate a value of it. Mine is in mint, unused condition which demands a premium in value.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/20/1607:18 PM
Originally Posted By: GCTom41
Chief,
I thought you did the deal! Look how much money you have left to order more knives!
Tom Flynn
LOL I thought I was going to get to see you posting pics of those Beauties!!! As for ordering knives I went nuts at Blade! At least 8 well more like 11 well....a lot!!!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 07/24/1603:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Jim459
Thanks for the kind comments. Below is a photo of the other side (pardon the blown highlights-I've got to re-shoot). Also is a group photo of the Smithsonian part of the collection that I call "The Smiths Brothers" (please pardon the cough drop reference).
Jim
Bump for this outstanding Smith family, and for maybe those who haven't see yet, unbelievable Jim!!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 06/09/1711:36 AM
You folk cut Warren some slack on posting the photos, you have to keep in mind him working off of cell phone and car charger since trading his house for that knife.
It does indeed appear as if fresh out of the paper. Just beautiful.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 06/09/1701:25 PM
Here is a Blade Show purchase of a Smithsonian Ivory Leschorn engraved Lugged Hilt & Smooth Coolie Cap knife. This is the one I bought of a matched pair set.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 06/10/1707:42 AM
Eric,
As Chief, said same set. Mitchell put me together with the seller.
The detail and craftsmanship of Tom Leschorn is amazing. I love big knives and there is no better RMK in my opinion than a Smith heavy with an Ivory handle. Only thing missing was a brassback. Imagine the edge tooling Leschorn could have done on that.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/06/1807:39 PM
I'm just LOL. Cap and I had a discussion at Lakeland. In his words "I know you like big knives, but sometimes lesser is more". NOPE! Great get and a super piece of stag.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/06/1811:16 PM
Originally Posted By: W Polidori
You could be the Man if you had a pre 64 quarter in that pic.
What would be the significance of a pre 64 quarter? Here is a pic of it with a 1944 quarter. And another pic with a 1964 half dollar. The half dollar doesn't even cover up the butt plate!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 09/13/1810:39 PM
I had a Smitty in ivory like this before & let it get away. Now thanks to Tune & Duke I have a second shot at this with a identical set up. Thanks Guys!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/14/1907:29 PM
When you get tired of collecting all those manly knives cause your arms hurt too damn much from picking them up, I'll be here for ya. I even know where there's a nice pocket knife collection you can get right now that would be just perfect for ya,LOL.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/11/1912:18 AM
Originally Posted By: Chief
Thanks guys.
One of the best things about smittys is how many options you get that aren't chargeable. I didn't even use all 5 on this one.
Would be good to explain. There's a few things you can't get like a Stainless blade. Knife comes standard with a brass lugged hilt, rwb spacers,leather handle, and a duraluminim cap if not mistaken.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/11/1912:40 AM
It may come that way but almost if not all hilt style can be had at no charge, like the FCH on mine, the nickel silver is but not the shape. Comes with a butt cap, agin only a material charge. Supplied wood, is a chargeable option. When you add a collar it's a chargeable option, but the plus is it's 1 option not 2, unlike a hilt where you get charged for the shape & the material. This is just 1 option as it's listed as a nickel silver smooth collar.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/11/1912:54 PM
We get 5 chargeable options per knife. A collar is not listed on the RMK site & then a separate charge for material as a hilt is. Even if it's scalloped in brass or smooth in nickel silver it's 1 option. Anytime that I have a option for metal spacers I try to get a collar instead.......costs more but is a totally different look. Also more area for engraving.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/11/1901:50 PM
That helps me some- one option for a n s smooth collar stead of a smooth collar, and then a n s option on top for 2 options used. This learning stuff is tough. Shpuld have tried to start many moons ago for sure! Thanks Walker
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/20/1910:06 PM
My most recent Smithsonian bowie. Took me awhile to figure out the scrimshander. After a bunch of online digging, I discovered the artist is Bob Engnath. I have another 12-11 Heavy headed my way. Hope to get Thursday or Friday. I'll post pics when it arrives. Thanks for looking!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/21/1909:36 AM
Well, I learned about her from the GTA 3 game when I was looking for the names of music tracks from it... even if you fail to find her and put an autograph, you can print this photo and put it next to the knife
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/21/1909:37 AM
Tune, that was a great big of info there! Eric, yes- couple of good points on that beauty. Nate-dog, excellent grab for you. Congrats! And of course I always enjoy Blondie's music. Walker
However, this is not so important, the knife itself is very good, the hair is so well drawn, resembles a story "Medusa's Coil" written Howard Phillips Lovecraft
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/23/1904:18 PM
The mail lady just brought me this one this morning. Chrome plated blade. I love the spacer stack, leather stack, and brass nut on this. I might get bashed for saying this, but I think I'd like the knife better if the blade wasn't chrome plated. It doesn't have the original Sheath. A few questions for the experts: 1) What would be the correct sheath? 2) what would be the approximate date it was made? 3) I am aware that an item is worth whatever a person is willing to pay at the moment, but when paired with appropriate sheath, what would be approximate value? Thanks guys!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/23/1905:01 PM
Well so far I've paid 769, but I'm guna have to find a sheath for it and I don't know what that will cost me. And it wasn't in an auction setting, so I don't know how accurate the 769 price is. That's why I was curious to see how much the value would be after I find a correct sheath for it.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/23/1910:03 PM
I don't know. His tend to be a bit more embellished. E.g. engraving, ivory, etc. I'd still like a bit more info on the correct sheath, age,and value of the chrome plated one.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/24/1909:55 AM
Nate-Dogg, Per your request, I'll try and help you get some answers. I am an authorized Randall knife appraiser but those appraisals involve methods and restrictions similar to Joe's authentications, i.e.: Sending your knife and sheath (if applicable) to me for proper documentation. Naturally charges are incurred, both shipping & insurance "both" ways plus a $50.00 (minimum) fee. A photo and appraisal will be returned with your knife. Having stated that, I can tell you that most chrome-plated Bowies I have dealt with were 1950-1960's range but a few orders were still taken into early 1970's. The sheath could be Heiser (So stamped) but many were Johnson roughbacks, more specifically, Maurice Johnson, tight-stitched roughbacks. A wide stitched Bowie sheath would be too "new". The snaps could be brown button or baby dot. As to value, that would be researched and part of the appraisal, especially for insurance purposes. I will tell you that the last one I sold went for $1600.00, complete with a JRB sheath with 2-textured sided grey stone. Hope this helps, Capt. Chris
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/24/1910:06 AM
Jim, Last one I sold came in a (correct) JRB and was nearly identical. Small blade stamp and all! Remember folks: It ain't when it was "made". It was when it was "sold" and "what" sheath was pulled out of the bin to be included with that order. Stay sharp, Capt. Chris PS: As a side note to the plating process: I spoke with a nice guy at the Orlando gun & knife show a couple of years ago (2016 or 17) who actually plated these blades. He was retired but worked at the local plating shop that sub-contracted the work from RMK. I don't know if they also did the rhodium plating on the early "Astros" but I would assume so...CCS
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/24/1911:02 AM
Thanks Cap. What's your thinking on the approximate date that the knife was made (as opposed to sold)? Just wondering if I was in the ballpark on that.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/24/1912:05 PM
Except for blade stamp, I'd agree Mitchell. The welded (braised) lugs is another "symptom"! Here's an example of my oldest Smitty but the trademark looks larger?? Certainly lots of room for speculation and, no doubt, the sheath would help a lot. Best, Capt. Chris P.S. Clarence Moore sheath!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/24/1901:46 PM
Thanks for the knowledge and opinions! I'll keep my eye out for a Clarence Moore, Heiser, or tight stiched JRB. It's a shame when these knives get separated from their sheaths. It makes it difficult to date and hurts the value. Thanks again.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/24/1908:40 PM
Originally Posted By: crutchtip
Then you will like this one. The only known Bo Randall Made miniature outside the museum.
Joe I think tattoo Bill has a mini Smith that Bo made locked in lucite. I picked it up a good many years ago from Mr Cordra York Of York Arms in Memphis, TN. Rhett worried me until I sold it to him. It is very similar to yours with the scratched Randall look like logo. However it has a stacked leather handle. Cool little knife.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/25/1911:48 AM
Yes, the Bo made those for dealers of the day. There are a few still floating around.
The one I have is the only one not in lucite that anyone knows of.
Mitch -
the spacers on the Bowies were not as consistent with other models relative to changes in size and/or arrangement at what we consider the "time" that change took place.
The five med think on the knife in question was used into the early 60's on some Bowies.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 05/25/1907:11 PM
JRB's sheathed up brazed lugged hilts also. See why Joe charges for authentications? No sheath is "definitely" a bog deal, especially when you're trying to pigeon-hole a date. Good luck with this, Capt. Chris
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/19/2005:14 PM
A used Confederate I picked up recently and restored the chipped edge and bent tip. Note the choil. I've only seen one other one (previous post in this forum) with a choil.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 03/04/2011:03 AM
According to history, the "original" original knife was made by a smithy on a plantation in Louisiana at the request of Rezin Bowie, who gave it to Jim after a run-in Jim had with somebody. Without checking on it, memory does not tell me for sure if it was one of the opponents at the later Sandbar fight, but I think it was.
Rezin wrote that first knife resembled a large kitchen knife.
According to legend, Jim later had a smithy in Arkansas make another knife to his specification...which historians and collectors speculate as to design details.
Rezin went on to have professional cutlers make a few known knives which were improvements on the Sandbar knife, and one of these can be seen at the Alamo.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 03/04/2011:43 AM
Larry, You are correct! Rezin had the first one.
There was also a blacksmith in Texas named Noah Smithwick that made at least one for Jim Bowie and several identical knives for others.
Noah Smithwick had his daughter write a book for him (EVOLUTION OF A STATE) that tells about it and several other interesting things from the 1820s to the outbreak of the civil war in Texas.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 03/15/2006:09 PM
Hi everyone. The good looking Smithsonian came from a shop sale several years ago. N/S hilt and the wood is Dakota Arms walnut supplied by Scott.
The gorgeous sheath was made by Greg Gutcher. Greg called the sheath the "African" as all of the hides used, elephant, hippo, zebra and lion came from Africa. He added that this was the first sheath he had made using four different types of hide. Dave
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 03/16/2001:32 PM
Dang Dave Awesome knife I was there They never show the sheaths at the stock sale Well worth sleepin in your truck for Can't wait to seeya again Sharpi
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 04/12/2004:21 PM
Hi everyone. A Smithsonian with a nickel silver hilt and dyed burl maple adds up to a good looking handful of knife. The sheath is lion and is another beauty made by Greg Gutcher that features a whopper of a claw. Dave
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 04/13/2001:22 PM
Hi Rick. Does "Clarence" ring a bell? Yesterday morning I was thinking that normally a bunch of us would be camped out in front of the shop talking knives and maybe swatting mosquitoes. No mosquitoes here yet. Yesterday the temperature dropped from the low 70's to 33.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 04/13/2005:13 PM
Have to say Dave, Gail and I missed hanging out with u guys for a couple of hours Sunday evening...always enjoyable conversations! And the knives we bring along for show & tell! Whoop! Whoop!
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 04/13/2006:21 PM
Dave Clarence the crossed eyed Tiger Miss all you guys After calling for 4-1/2 hours and only two 14s were, left which I have both. I was tempted to ride my Road King to the shop, but it was 90 degrees Stay safe and healthy we'll see ya at a better time in the future Sharpi
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 04/14/2011:07 AM
Morning Scott. The time spent on the driveway as a group always provides some pleasant memories. It is nice to see familiar faces and to meet the new people that are interested in a knife and how the process works. The discussions cover a wide territory and I always learn something new. Your and Gail's visit is a kind gesture that is much appreciated and anticipated that has become something of a tradition that hopefully we can all share again. Dave
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 04/14/2002:48 PM
Rick, When we first moved out here Joe and the animals were on the tube Saturday mornings fairly often. I have not watched the Netflix show yet but guess it is about time to see what all the fuss is about.
Man, the 12-9-14 grind is beautiful. I love the color and tiger striping.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 01/01/2110:45 AM
Finally got my first Randall recently... a 12-9 with crown stag handle. I would post a picture but have not gotten picture hosting set up just yet. BTW... let's keep those model 12 pics a coming... I love those model 12's.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 01/01/2103:28 PM
You don't need to use picture hosting to post a picture. As long as it's size is under 1.95 MB, you can use "file manager" (just below this box). Here's how to do it:
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 01/01/2103:53 PM
Originally Posted By: Holzinger258
You don't need to use picture hosting to post a picture. As long as it's size is under 1.95 MB, you can use "file manager" (just below this box). Here's how to do it:
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 01/02/2112:35 PM
Originally Posted By: Jim459
Peter,
I do love those interesting handles and hilts. Engraving and scrimshaw are favorites too as are special edition knives like the Randall minis, 50th Anniversary (how about a 75th Anniversary one Gary?), and those rare and one-of-a-kind Randall's done during Bo's lifetime.
Here is one more Smith with pure silver hardware, a Narwhal handle, engraving by Skaggs with a pair of Narwhal on the butt cap with the crossed teeth done in gold leaf.
Jim
I have to admit that even though Stag handles are my favorites... this Narwhal example is beyond amazing. If I ever had a chance to purchase one I'd probably have to sell a kidney. Congrats on a simply stunning Smitty.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/28/2109:12 AM
Outstanding, unique Smitty Coach. And for anyone who enjoys knowing about our country’s history and the folks who lived it you could do one heckuve lot worse than reading about Texas and it’s Rangers. Thanks for posting.
Re: Knife Of The Week Model 12, Part Deux - 02/28/2111:40 AM
I think I have read every book there is about The Texas Rangers. The things they could do off the back of a horse were just amazing, they could lean down in the saddle and pickup a silver dollar at full gallop, also changed cylinders in their revolvers at full gallop. Jack Hayes is my favorite.
Object Details Description This bowie knife was found on the battlefield of Perryville, Kentucky. It is claimed that the bowie knife was designed by Rezin Bowie, the brother of James Bowie, and made by blacksmith James Black. The blade, made of steel, was up to 14 inches long. Its shape enabled the cowboy or mountain man to skin or disembowel an animal. In general, the bowie is usually classified as any large knife with a clip point. It was popular from the 1840s through 1865 and used by United States troops during the Mexican War and on the frontier during the disturbances in Kansas and Missouri in the 1850s. During the Civil War, it was popular with Confederate soldiers, whose arms generally were inferior. Associated Date: 1862 ID Number: AF.32398 catalog number: 32398 accession number: 68826 Object Name: knife Other Terms: knife; Edged Weapons; CSA, Army; Bowie Physical Description: steel (overall material), wood (overall material) Measurements: overall: 5 in x 17 3/4 in x 1 1/2 in found in: United States: Kentucky
