Personal preference Model 1, 16SF, or 14?

There may be ancient threads about this but looking for your thoughts about RMK fighters. Model's 1, 16SF, and 14 are all fighters. Which one and why from a form, fit, function discussion; not collectable/value aspects? I've had them all and they all have their talking points. There's also field knives made up as fighters but I'd like to limit the discussion to these three.
So you say...

My 1st Randall was a model one APFK , 6 inch blade carbon steel stacked leather handle. Still my favorite to use, skinned and cleaned at least a dozen deer with it along with using it for other stuff. Nicely balanced is an understatement , in a six inch blade.

Of those three, if you're talking pure fighter, I'd go with a Model 1, mostly because it's the lightest weight. Lighter weight equates to faster speed.

I gotta say the #2 is probably more fighter than the others, also the combat companion and the #18 attack/survival... the #15 is no slouch and that #4 with the double edge blade is one hell of a knife...big Bowie’s, Arkansas toothpick, Sasquatch...

Shelly,

I'm trying to keep the discussion around the three subject blades. I'm not discounting your thoughts but we can go sideways quickly. Thank you for the post.

Model 1. Then and now; it's an outstanding fighting design. I also don't dig finger grooves on a fighter.

I'd go no more than 7".

If we are talking about the knives in standard configurations I would personally go with a #1. I've owned all three but didn't like the finger groves on the SP-16 and find the 14 too heavy. Plus with the #1 it's easy to reverse your grip. Just my two cents

All good points, keep it up!

Uh..... #1.

That was a given Tune.

The handle on the model one is best I have ever used , no hot spots what so ever . Have a couple of Blackjack 125's they copied it because it gets high marks for use. http://atmknives.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/dscn1692.jpg

What about this?
Capt. Chris

16SF is a non issue. I don't even know why that model exists. A double hilt 16 does the job just fine and doesn't look cobbled together. The finger relief cut on a 16SF is about useless. You won't want to use the knife in the upside down mode with those finger grips digging into your palm, so what is what is the point?

14 is a big knife and as a fighter will do it well. It also offers the greater utilitarian use over a model 1

I think the obvious choice here as a fighter only is the model 1.

I will say, as a pure fighter, the model 2 reigns supreme. That is the sole purpose for its existence.

This is exactly the response I was searching for Joe. The "why". I haven't opined yet cause I was searching for your thoughts. As a fighter, the model 1 as about as good as it gets IMO, however I like the 14 in standard configuration for it's heft and downright indestructible construction. Mine goes with me on every hunt. Not as a dressing tool but a just in case. Keep it going fellas.

Has anyone here actually used any of these models against another person?

Tony,
The hospital doesn't allow any type of weapon on premises.
Luckily for some of the medical staff I didn't have a 1-7
on my person or in the room.

Not I. My selection was based strictly on theory, hearsay, and Bo's word.

I killed a big Africa rat rummaging around in my rucksack one night with a 14 but that's about it. It was strong enough to puncture half of my kit in the process.

I think the model 1 wins as the pure fighter choice of the three but for military use the 14 is the best all around combat theatre knife made. IMO its better to have a dependable all around tool that you can fight with if need be and that's the 14. The blade has enough spine to pry open ammo boxes and heavy enough to quarter up a warthog and get it on the spit and will still cut you out of your gear if need be. The finger grips provide positive control in a bare or gloved hand - sweaty, greasy, bloody - doesn't matter, once you grab it, it isn't going anywhere. Everybody has their favorites and that's ok, this is just my humble, biased opinion.

The knife I featured earlier received no response...but that's alright. Here's "another" shot of it...&...unlike Joe, I like it as my pure fighter choice. BPH or with the fg's knocked down, the #16-7", Special Fighter, is dynamite!
You get the blade shape and length of the most popular of fighters, the Model #1..."BUT"...(Ahhhh: Another "but")...you "also" get full, exposed tang construction and a stainless blade as standard equipment!
Don't knock a knife because of one particular handle shape when so many are available. Also: Wrist thong? "No extra charge". Another noteworthy mention is, during all of the latest "Desert Conflicts" my number one seller to military personnel, "actually" shipping out to the crap, was a #16, Spl. #1. SFG & BPH were amongst the preferred choices.
Another "another"...I have not killed anyone with a knife. I've stuck a couple but never killed them. I "have", however, killed a dozen or so hogs, in a trap, with one in Immokolee, Florida and they were dispatched quickly and without drama or incident!
A #16-7" Special Fighter would be my #1 choice. The grip is more secure. The blade length and stock is perfect. You can "also" use it as a Diver's model and it fits into Randall's nylon sheath like a glove!
I prefer a Model "C" style sheath, waxed leather. Perfect medicine for a whole lotta' stuff! (Sorry Joe) They're all great knives...No real loser, just my preference listed for the reasons I (hope) I've explained.
Stay sharp, Capt. Chris
PS: This one's SFG with laminated red/blue micarta from (You guessed it) The Captain's "STASH"! Photo shows a standard Model "A" sheath, in tan leather...CCS

Great stuff Cap, thanks for the most complete post. You nailed it. Oh great knife there, hope its still in the "stash"

I am in the process of replacing it with a BPH model with killer old (very old) brown canvas micarta. I've had the micarta since Moby Dick was a minnow!
Best, Capt. Chris

Lol

I have a Model #1, and love it, but I will be ordering a #16 SP1 Fighter eventually for all the reasons the Capt. mentioned.

When I placed my very first order for a Randall Made Knife, I debated between the #14 and the #16 SP1. I ended up choosing a #14, but it was a close one.

Smaller brother.

Soooo like does a 12-9 14 grind count?

Was only considering 7" to 7 1/2" for purposes of discussion.

As Joe said above ...

"14 is a big knife and as a fighter will do it well. It also offers the greater utilitarian use over a model 1"

Perhaps if the #14 has a Border Patrol Handle and a #1 Hilt,
it would be a little better as a "fighter"?

Just a thought.

Tony

That would be a CDT 14. I personally prefer the full exposed tang, but nice to have options.

It would still be a full exposed tang. How about adding the sawteeth/no sawteeth grind? It would look like this, but without sawteeth.

Yep! That's it Tom!

Warren,
#1 double hilts and border patrol handle shaping is available on a full, exposed tang Model #14.
Best, Capt. Chris

Thanks for that. Guess I was thinking only on CDT.

Still take a double hilt 16 over a SF. Just don't like the SF, even a little.

You never have Joe. That's no surprise..."but"...if you like a #16, Divers and you like a Model #1, All-purpose fighter it ain't a cliff jump to liking a #16-7", Special #1.
If one was to take Model #1 and add stainless steel, black micarta and #14 style finger grips, along with a wrist thong, the pricing would run: $555.00. A base-priced #16, Special Fighter, base price is: $430.00..."&"...it comes with all of the same tricks..."+" a full tang!
Best, Capt. Chris

Ugly knife to me. I know some like them, so don't get your panties in a wad.

I wouldn't order a #1 with #14 style grips. In fact, I dont' think I would order any knife with #14 style grips other than a 14, 15, and 16. All standard on those three models. Only other handle I would consider is border patrol, and I would have to think about it. Call me a traditionalist.

#28 with grips might work, kinda like some of the first DPH.

only required "option" on a 16 would be a double hilt, and it looks "right". Maybe a #1 shouldn't be a full tang knife. For me the two don't go together. That is why other models with full tangs were offered.

Just my .02.

I really do like the grips on this knife, Joe:

How about a #16 SP1 with a Double Brass Lugged Hilt, doable?

Joe,

To me, the 14 grips are really functional. More "purchase" on the grip. I don't see any problem inverted either. Not discounting BPH, however this is my pack carry. It works for me, comfortable, no issues, and 1st choice.

I'm not a model 2 fan.....but I'm with Joe on this one.
All the others will go in hard & have a greater chance of hanging up or getting stuck.
The taper of the 2 is going to have less chance of that happening.
No need to change the grip so that the edge is up or down.

Cons for me not heavy enough more of a finesse weapon.
A little short for me, I'm a strength guy, no speed so I would want & need more reach.

Steve -

not that I don't like grips, I do, but the traditional style of RH or LH, particularly in say leather or stag. Never have been a fan of knives with 14 type grips other than the full tang models. Just my personal taste, no wrong or right.

Warren -

It works, but is not the ideal. Very few actually use that method with edge up anyway, so for the most part in the real world it is a non-issue.

I do like the grips Warren on those models as I mentioned. I just have never been a fan of 14 style grips on other models. As mentioned, RH or LH is fine for my purposes.

Truth be told, I like a 16 with a dbl hilt. Great fighting and ulititarian knife with a bit less bulk than a 14.

Thanks for the reply Joe. I thought it would be helpful to add a few pics and perhaps only on Fireman would I agree more but not the subject of this thread.
Great thoughts from everyone, please keep playing on!

forgot about the fireman.

Joe, I like the double hilt Model 16 as well. Great design for a dive knife, it would make an excellent fighting knife, and probably any other duty called on to perform.

Gonna throw a wrench in this thread. What is the military preference or the most popular model? I suppose the shop could only answer the question. Lets get a different perspective. Just asking in respect and hoping for an answer. Thanks in advance,.

Never want to forget our friendly, neighborhood Fireman.

SHOOT,!!! Feel free to resize my pic.......thanks.

Caveat: it's been nearly two decades since I was in. But I was an infantryman in the 82d, where guys buy lots and lots and lots of knives.

Other than myself and our BN medical NCO, nobody else in my unit had really ever considered buying a Randall. The preference was for far cheaper knives. Back then, USAF survival knives were ubiquitous (jumpmasters routinely carry them) and lots of guys had ka-bars. When I started bringing a model 1 to the field, it got many raised eyebrows.

I look at it like this: cops all carry guns, but a lot of them aren't "gun guys" and couldn't care less about what they've got on their hips. Soldiers are like that with knives too. Most aren't enthusiasts and just want something that works. Inexpensively, if possible.

I do wonder whether things have changed during the more recent wars.

Unique perspective Mark. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for your service to our country.

I completely agree with Chief and Joe on the Model 2 being the best fighter in the Randall line, but it wasn't a choice.

I had a Gerber Mark I stuffed in my boot, left leg, inside. I was in a vehicle a lot (usually the driver), so I wanted something easily reachable from a seated position.

It was Desert Storm, so nothing happened -- "all expense paid vacation to Riyadh".

To translate that to the RMK equivalent, Model 2 or baby 13.

As I stated earlier (& I guess Warren didn't see it) I sold a lot of #16-7", Special #1 Fighters to the desert boys over the past 2-3 decades! More than the other 2 that were doable in short order, i.e.: Model #1 or Model #14. Far..."FAR" more! By such a majority it was overly one-sided.
Hope this helps...(again)
Capt. Chris

Name sounds good, "Special Fighter", surely to garner some sales with the mystical name particularly if they are being pushed, but it doesn't offer anything over a DH 16 and is really not that attractive of a knife - to me. Doesn't have any "lines", particularly when compared to a standard configured model 1.

So what improvement does it give you? Just trying to understand.

Theoretically, greater strength due to a wider tang and additional handle choices.

ETA: I read your question as if you were asking about improvements compared to a standard Model 1. You might have meant compared to a DH16. Regardless, I don’t think the SF was designed to be an improvement over a DH 16. Obviously, it is offered for those who want a beefed up Model 1 with additional handle choices.

Capt. Chris and others,

From this discussion, it sounds like finger grips are personal and subjective.

There are two aspects to think about when it comes to finger grips—What is pleasing to the eye, and what is practical for the user.

And, of course, sometimes these don’t line up together.

The contoured handles--Model 14 FG, SFG, BP--were designed to improve the user’s ability to hold onto the exposed tang knives like the Model 14, 15, 16, and 16-1 Special Fighter, under conditions where it could be difficult to keep their grip on a straight handle.

The Model 14 FGs came along when Bo was trying to design a knife for the Marine Corps that would be used under trying combat conditions, and with the Model 16 Diver’s Knife which is important to be able to hang onto and control under water.

The deep Model 14 FGs also make it easier for someone wearing gloves to be able to hang onto the knife.

I think that previously a buyer could ask the shop to do “Model 14 light” FGs on the exposed tang knives, with the grooves made shallower according to personal preference. I don’t know if this is still available.

Also, I don’t remember ever seeing one, but wonder whether a buyer might ask to have a straight “No FG” on the 14, 15, 16, or 16-1 Special Fighter? That is a question I never asked, but maybe Capt. Chris can clarify it.

The SFG tends to “force” a user to hold onto the knife just one way, in my opinion, with the contour of the lower handle making it awkward to turn the knife upside down in the hand in order to use saw teeth or a sharpened top bevel.

The BP handle gives the user a bit more control than a straight handle, and is more comfortable if the user wants to turn it upside down to use saw teeth or a sharpened top bevel. Still, the “feel” of doing this might not be liked by everyone.

Finally, if we look at the RMK’s that come standard with straight handles of leather, wood, or Micarta, the FG options that I recall are Right Hand, Left Hand, and “14 Light” which makes a knife more ambidextrous while giving the user somewhat more control. The amount of material available in some handle choices such as stag means that FGs cannot be as deep as on the Model 14 family of Micarta handles.

Lots of tradeoffs to be made. And we have all seen some beautifully executed examples of all these options on various knives.

For me, it doesn’t matter so much what some knives look like if they were designed and made to meet a demanding need. But for others, function and aesthetics can be more easily combined—they are capable of doing their intended chores, but can also be “pretty.”

Larry

I don't like finger grooves or crows beak on a knife loaded with "hot spots' , especially the reverse grip. The model one standard handle is the best ever made, it feels like a rapier , that is quick and facile.

This is what I am talking about:

"surely to garner some sales with the mystical name particularly if they are being pushed"
Joe, I certainly cannot speak for anyone else but anybody who knows me or has dealt with me would know I'm the "last" one to "push" anything...(Just in case that reference was meant for me...& I am the only one "selling RMKs" on this thread, that would be in that position).
I'll tell you this much. Some military personnel being sent to the sand have asked me what the 3 knives the Randall shop had to offer with a shorter waiting time. When I told them the 3 choices, nobody...and I mean "Nobody" chose anything else "except" the Special Fighter, but that was probably because the mystical name garnered the sale...not the fact that they got more...much more for their hard-earned dollar!
I have always known you didn't like the Special Fighter Joe. You even stated so in one of your comments on this thread. Nobody is going to win a prize on this topic and everybody's opinion counts. Let's agree that ours differ..."&"...I like all friggin' "3" of them!
Best, Capt. Chris
PS: Just to prove I like "some" of the same thing Joe does, here's a couple of matching #16's from my "STASH"...CCS

Thanks for posting those Cap. That Jade green doesn't suck!

No Cap, you know I wasn't referencing you in that fashion. I do think the "mystical name" helps with that model as I am gonna guess many guys that get them are not "Randall guys" per se and it sounds kinda cool. "Hey you want a double hilt 16 or a SPECIAL FIGHTER?! Damn give me the SF!!!"

It isn't a bad deal for the money, no doubt, but like I said, I am a bit more of a traditionalist and have never cared for the look of the SF. A #1 blade and a traditional i.e standard with maybe a slight drop or commando handle is the shiznit! RH or LH grips to taste. Just my opinion.

Now the two 16's you posted are more my style. I have not owned a BP handle like that, but it is the only alternative I would consider versus the standard. Very comfortable in the hand and probably a bit more useable for edge up.

Warren & Joe,
Thanks. I just wish I could find more of this Jade Green> I have about 7-8 RMKs made up in it and would like about that many more!
Best, Capt. Chris

Just green with envy Cap. Good luck with the search; keep me in mind.

off topic...Capt, I may be able to help you...
:-)Rocky

As for choice between models, impossible to go by model but only individual knives.

The model choice impossible due to variations from knife to knife. Are you talking a 14 with a thick tip or a thin tip? A #1 with a thick edge, or thin? Handle shape variations even on otherwise identical knives and handle styles can make or break a knife choice for me.

Not asking folks to nit pick down to minute details. I think many gave good reasons why they prefer one blade over another, handle shape included. Thanks to all that participated.

Great stuff! Thanks Warren for a great thread. Not one of the 3 given to pick, but since the thread has completed I thought I would add my thought. I have always liked one of Gary's idea of a fighter, very similar to the #16 SF in my opinion, just with more of a chute shaped spear point blade. The Solingen Fighter with model 1 hilts in Commando or SFG.

The second one is awesome Eric. I really like a chute blade.

Thanks Warren, you are awesome as well.

Oh not me Eric, pleeease

I was not trying to rain on your thread, but I hardly consider it a minute detail, especially for a prospective buyer plonking down $500 based on internet threads, when what model someone says they favor due to some design element may have that element not be present on the very next knife. As far as I am concerned, this should be part and parcel of promoting the knives and models, rather than bland "handmade/variation" statements telling nothing.

More helpful would be "I favor THIS particular #16 due to its heavy grind in etc etc, but this other model etc often can do the same whatever etc etc."

Of course, it seems all I should have said was "the Model 16, of course, it is always the best," and would have then not been excluded from the generic thanks statement for everybody else who participated.